CKC

1935 Miller-Ford Indy 500 Race Car

1908Rick Rick Eggers

Home Page: Rick Eggers   USA
Cape Coral, Florida, USA
Total Posts: 6 Latest Post: 2017-12-12
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Miller-Ford V-8 Indy Car

Rick Eggers   USA — Posted on The CycleKart Club
Tuesday December 12, 2017 5:40 PM


Instrument panel 001

Instrument panel 001

Instrument panel 002

Instrument panel 002

Instrument panel 004

Instrument panel 004




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Miller-Ford V-8 Indy Car

Rick Eggers   USA — Posted on The CycleKart Club
Saturday December 9, 2017 1:59 PM


Body skeleton 001

Body skeleton 001

Body skeleton 002

Body skeleton 002




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Miller-Ford V8 Indy Car

Rick Eggers   USA — Posted on The CycleKart Club
Tuesday November 14, 2017 7:38 PM


Front suspension 003

Front suspension 003

Front suspension 005

Front suspension 005




Member Comments on Journal Entry: Miller-Ford V8 Indy Car   ↵
2017-11-14 19:54:13 # 45926
Comment by Charles Schultz
Shock absorbers?
2017-11-14 21:17:12 # 45929
Comment by Rick Eggers
Nope
2017-11-17 08:14:33 # 45988
Comment by Gregg Kishline
Rick,I did a similar front end including the rack & pinion. I realize bump-steer is only a minor consideration, however ... Did you consider putting the rack on the axle, rather than the frame? The steering shaft can float. Also, the track bar goes away, if one torsion arm attaches to a fixed bracket welded to the axle - a floating link on one side only. Not being critical, just following openwheel midget practice dating back to WWII.
2017-11-18 09:58:53 # 46043
Comment by Rick Eggers
Thanks for the input Gregg. Somebody pointed out that I could do the torsion bar arm arrangement you describe, but I already had the parts made, so I did it this way. I never thought about putting the rack on the axle. It seems a little odd. I don't think there's going to be a lot of suspension travel, so bump-steer shouldn't be a problem. We'll see.

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Front End Mocked Up On '35 Miller-Ford

Rick Eggers   USA — Posted on The CycleKart Club
Tuesday November 7, 2017 12:32 PM


front end mock up 001

front end mock up 001

front end mock up 002

front end mock up 002




Member Comments on Journal Entry: Front End Mocked Up On '35 Miller-Ford   ↵
Rated 10 out of 10 based on 1 ratings
2017-11-09 19:53:38 # 45844
Comment by Brian Woods
Looks great!Are you able to simulate how it might work with forces applied at this point?And are you going to make the streamline covers as on the original V8Millers.Do you know how many still exist and the total number built?I have seen and read conflicting numbers!Brian
2017-11-09 20:19:09 # 45847
Comment by Charles Schultz
Ten were built. The steering boxes were too close to the exhaust manifolds and several crashed. Hank Ford was furious and they got sold off. Bits and pieces raced at Indy into the 1950's. Andy Granetelli of STP fame tried to qualify one in the late 1940s and crashed severely. One is at the Speedway Motors museum in Lincoln Nebraska. I think four have been restored.
2017-11-09 20:51:10 # 45851
Comment by Rick Eggers
Charles, Somebody is vintage racing one. It's red and white with a number 35 on it. One is in the Henry Ford Museum, and one is in the Indianapolis Speedway Museum. I wish they were closer so I could go look and drool.
2017-11-09 20:59:36 # 45852
Comment by Rick Eggers
Brian, Yes, I stood on the frame rails and bounced up and down. It's springy. I haven't been able to measure the frame drop with my 230 pounds on it, but it looks to be around an inch or slightly more. I'm definitely going to make the aluminum covers like the original cars had. Ford had Harry Miller build ten of these and around half are still around, as far as I can tell on the internet. It was a late deal and there wasn't sufficient time to test and debug before trying to qualify. They were fast, but as Charles said, the aluminum steering boxes were positioned too close to the exhaust manifold causing them to overheat and seize up.
2017-11-09 21:29:28 # 45853
Comment by Brian Woods
Thanks!And yes, that is one of the stories I have heard.And Chuck......I goy my simulator 45 Gal drum last night!Brian
2017-11-10 13:00:43 # 45863
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Rating: 10/10
Hello, Rick, I wanted before to ask "where is Panhard rod", but now you installed it. That would be quite precisely positioned front axle and suspension/steering! Good work shall follow I am sure, and I will with a joy wait at next operations. Regards, Zoran

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Adjustable Camber Spindles

Rick Eggers   USA — Posted on The CycleKart Club
Tuesday October 31, 2017 4:44 PM


cycle kart front suspension mock up 007

cycle kart front suspension mock up 007

clinometer

clinometer




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Member Comments on Journal Entry: Adjustable Camber Spindles   ↵
2017-11-01 06:58:27 # 45592
Comment by Jake Yuenger
Quite clever
2017-11-01 15:19:55 # 45601
Comment by Steve Vinson
That's pretty cool, just make sure you also build in some Camber 7 degrees seems to work well.
2017-11-01 15:23:21 # 45602
Comment by Charles Schultz
Did you mean 7 degrees of caster? Caster is kingpin tilt front to rear while camber is kingpin tilt
2017-11-01 15:29:42 # 45603
Comment by Steve Vinson
DUUUUHHH yes Caster. Sorry, I was looking at the post and saw "camber" and just wrote that.Thanks Charles for pointing out my error. Cheers!
2017-11-01 16:56:02 # 45605
Comment by Rick Eggers
They're set at eight degrees caster and fourteen degrees KPI, which should result in zero scrub radius. I'm really looking forward to driving this thing to see if the extra work was worth it.

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Making Good Progress

Rick Eggers   USA — Posted on The CycleKart Club
Tuesday October 31, 2017 7:50 AM


cycle kart front suspension mock up 001

cycle kart front suspension mock up 001




Member Comments on Journal Entry: Making Good Progress   ↵
2017-10-31 10:38:36 # 45572
Comment by Lowell Roemke
That's neat! What material did you use for the torwion bars?
2017-10-31 10:55:01 # 45573
Comment by Charles Schultz
Looks great. 83 lb/in may be about right
2017-10-31 16:39:38 # 45575
Comment by Rick Eggers
Charles, I ended up going with a 5.5" arm on the torsion bar. That means the wheel, and the actual point of force on the axle, will be about 7" outboard of the attachment point of the arm to the axle. What effect, if any, will this have on the suspension?
2017-10-31 16:41:17 # 45576
Comment by Rick Eggers
Lowell, It's a secret for now. I want to do some testing before I reveal it. If you look closely at the picture, you might see a name brand on the bar.
2017-10-31 16:50:45 # 45577
Comment by Charles Schultz
Offsetting the end of the torsion arm from the actuation point at the wheel can complicate the math. I think you will be OK.BTW, all steels, regardless of hardness, have the same torsional stiffness. The harder steels/better alloys will last longer as they have a higher tolerance for stress cycles. I'll make my first torsion bars from AISI 1018 & if they lose their "springiness" I'll move on to AISI 4140 HT'd to 300 HB.
2017-10-31 17:15:56 # 45578
Comment by Rick Eggers
Well, I'm kind of at the point of no return now. This is either going to work or it's not. Did you see in the picture, the anchor end of the torsion bar is adjustable. I can use it to adjust the ride height, or to jack weight into one corner or the other. If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. I can also adjust the length of the links, because they just 2 heims, a male screwed into a female.
2017-10-31 17:58:52 # 45579
Comment by Charles Schultz
The traditional way of adjusting ride height on a parallel torsion bar midget is to index the arm or the stop to get the height "right." One side is directly mounted to the "bird cage" [rear ax;e] or front axle bracket. The other side has an adjustable length link [made of two heim joints as you have done] so the car can "roll" through the corners. It is a time tested suspension that scales up to champ dirt cars and down to midgets. TQs, and Half midgets. If you have a race car museum nearby you can learn a lot just by looking. Cross torsion bar systems are slightly different since they use a panard bar for axial location of the axle.
2017-10-31 22:36:21 # 45582
Comment by Brian Woods
How much do you figure all of this is going to weigh?And how will that compare to the traditional buggy spring??Brian
2017-11-01 14:10:53 # 45596
Comment by Charles Schultz
Generally speaking torsion bar systems are lighter than leaf springs and about the same as coil springs over tube shocks. For torsion systems you can save weight by making the arms and stops from aluminum
2017-11-01 14:25:33 # 45597
Comment by Brian Woods
Not to steal Rick's Thread here, but what he is doing here may be the way I will go to make room for my in the Belly Tank.Brian
2017-11-01 15:15:52 # 45600
Comment by Rick Eggers
Brian, I don't think it weighs any more than leaf springs do. I only did it this way so the suspension willl fit inside the bodywork. Look at a 1935 Miller indycar and imagine it with leaf springs showing. It would ruin the clean look.
2017-11-01 16:45:50 # 45604
Comment by Brian Woods
I hear you!

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