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Talbot Darracq 700 Project

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Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
There was a very nice and interesting front engine CK at Tieton this year, that worked extremely well.
Brian

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Brian, you have to be talking about "A.J. Foyt" Joey Verpoorten?
Joey's thread on the build sort of ended abruptly because of
family obligations. But, I did see he managed to make it to
Tieton from the little bit that has been posted so far.
Other than the Gypsy footage, there hasn't been enough video
to see how any of the other karts handled.
I'd really like to hear more about how the DeSoto performed at
Tieton and which events Joey got to run it in.
The front engine karts really interest me as they are an approach
that more closely mimics the original Cyclecars.
However......using a drive shaft and 90° gearbox does present a
challenge in that it pus the driver way up in the air, so that obviously
creates a problem with the CG which drastically effects the handling.
Chains or belts outside the frame does allow the driver to sink down
in the pit, but long chains or belts with their idlers have more than their
share of problems.
Since all this is making the Cyclekart WAY more complicated
than it was intended to be.....how bout throwing Hydraulics into
the mash, just for discussion sake????? Someone is bound to
try a Hydro-static set up someday.
dg

PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
I'd like to see more footage too but I guess everyone was too busy drivin', wrenchin', or partyin'! As far as your very valid arguments against front engined build, I'm with you. However, Joey seems to have pretty much overcome them all. He had literally just finished it and Tieton was his test run. I think everyone, like me thought it was extremely cool but skeptical that it would all hang together through a weekend of thrashing. It was great! The driver sits low, it handled good, looked awesome, and I don't think it had a single issue. I doubt he'll ever keep up with the front runners speed wise but I doubt that he cares that much. Everybody at Tieton considered it a total winner. I think he got the award for Most Creative Build (or something like that). If someone wants to take on the challenge of a front engined kart, I'd use Joey's design as the starting point, it works great!

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refisk Avatar
refisk Rick Fisk
Frankenmuth, Michigan, USA   USA
Driveshaft doesn't have to go down the middle of the car. grinning smiley

In reply to # 25334 by Denny Graham Brian, you have to be talking about "A.J. Foyt" Joey Verpoorten?
Joey's thread on the build sort of ended abruptly because of
family obligations. But, I did see he managed to make it to
Tieton from the little bit that has been posted so far.
Other than the Gypsy footage, there hasn't been enough video
to see how any of the other karts handled.
I'd really like to hear more about how the DeSoto performed at
Tieton and which events Joey got to run it in.
The front engine karts really interest me as they are an approach
that more closely mimics the original Cyclecars.
However......using a drive shaft and 90° gearbox does present a
challenge in that it pus the driver way up in the air, so that obviously
creates a problem with the CG which drastically effects the handling.
Chains or belts outside the frame does allow the driver to sink down
in the pit, but long chains or belts with their idlers have more than their
share of problems.
Since all this is making the Cyclekart WAY more complicated
than it was intended to be.....how bout throwing Hydraulics into
the mash, just for discussion sake????? Someone is bound to
try a Hydro-static set up someday.
dg

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
True rick, they've even tried a splitter after the transmission with two drive
shafts going back at angles, which let them lower the driver between the
two. Talk about a complicated drive train.
Offsetting a driveshaft to the side would require 2 90° directional changes.
The more changes in direction you put into the drive train, the less
efficient the power transfer becomes. a worm drive only transfers about
80% vs a belt or roller chain which is in the high 90's with. Not sure what
a 90° 1:1 drive with bevel gears would cost you. When you've only got
8 or 10 hp to start with,you can't afford to much of a loss in getting
the power to the ground.

dg

WesR Wes Raynor
Leicester, Leics., UK   GBR
Thanks Charles, I have looked at shaft/bevels/gearboxes but all look very expensive. Re extra cost of a front engine car, I reckon this should be little more than $150 or so for the final belt/chain system. On a car costing say $1500, I think to have the engine in the right place and the drive system alongside the driver, as in the original Talbot, an extra 150 would be money well spent.
Garden tractor/mowers are something I looked at recently. Lawnmower racing seems to be a big hobby and all the racing mowers I looked at were belt driven with very cheap belts and pulleys but unfortunately not quite the right size for my car.

MalibuMan Cas Tuyn
Weert, Limburg, Netherlands   NLD
Wes,

Have you considered Gates carbon belt drives for bicycles? Their CDX system has very light pulleys with a center ridge so the belt does not fall off when not perfectly aligned.

I am (forever, it seems) designing an electric cycle kart as light as possible, with the Golden Motors 3kW engine (less than others here are using I noticed, they have the 5kW) and Gates CDX belts. My biggest problem is gearing down the speed of the electric motor of 3000 - 5000 RPM down to 555 RPM which gives me a max speed of 76 km/h. I want to do this with a 20 tooth pulley belt to 60 tooth pulley, an axle that connects to a 20 tooth pulley and then another belt to a 60 tooth pulley.

I am building so light as my original plan was to use bicycle paths to escape the traffic jams to work, but since then the dutch goverment are forcing speed pedelecs (bicycles which can go 45 km/h) off the cycle paths onto the car road (so back into the traffic jam) because there were some collisions between speed pedelecs and slower bicycles, and they are requiring a helmet for speed pedelecs. Also many bicycle path have width limiting dividers and poles to ban vehicles wider than 75 cm, and I want to be 1 m wide to avoid rolling over.

On the topic of rolling over, my 3 wheeled velomobile of only 76 cm wide has a tendency to roll over in fast curves, that is why I want 4 wheels and a wide track. I have not rolled it over yet but it will lift the inside wheel and the correction by me steers me towards the outside of the bend where there could be oncoming traffic, a wall, a ditch, etc.

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PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
Interesting stuff Cas.
New Zealand Mike and I ran his Mercedes CK with my 5KW Goldenmotor/Chevrolet Volt 48V set-up at Tieton. When the bugs get worked out it will be very competitive with the gas engines (we won our first race). I know you're working towards a completely different goal, but I wonder about the 3KW system having enough power. Our CK did weigh 300 lbs. ready to race. I'm going to look into the Gates belt for our next project. Thanks.

WesR Wes Raynor
Leicester, Leics., UK   GBR
I think I have looked at pretty much every possibility. Which, as I say, are many! I am basically looking for the cheapest and lightest system which works and just waiting now for new sprockets, etc. for a two stage system with a 2:1 chain from the engine and a 2:1 V belt to the axle. A couple of weeks and it should be running.

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