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Need of a torque converter?

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Torro123 Avatar
Torro123 René Wesselius
Amsterdam, NH, Netherlands   NLD
Hi,i am planning a build and now looking what i need,
I know you guys are using a converter on the Honda 200 and i wonder why?is there a must to use these?
Please can someone explain this to me...........

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chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
It's more a CVT transmission than what we refer to as a torque converter. It effectively gives a clutch, and a variable speed transmission, a less sophisticated version of that used on mopeds, and auto scooters.

moto-klasika Avatar
moto-klasika Zoran R. P.
Bern, Bern, Switzerland   CHE
Hello René,
Think about DAF Vaiomatic system! Simple, cheap and useful for smaller automobiles as was models DAF 33, 44, 55 and even Volvo 353!
Ciao,
Zoran




Zoran R. Pualić
(mostly living in Bern, Swiss & happy in my Belgrade, Serbia)

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Torro123 Avatar
Torro123 René Wesselius
Amsterdam, NH, Netherlands   NLD
Chris and Zoran thanks,i understand how it works(i did drive a Daf44)but whatabout the need for such a device.
Are the engines you use without a centrifugal clutch?I don't know about these engines at all,never used them.
If the converter is used to reduce the rpm there must be another way with using sprockets to get the ratio you need.
René

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
René,

The engines don't have a centrifugal clutch, the "torque converter" acts as a clutch too with the belt running free on the pulleys. Hence my comment about it being a simplifies form of CVT, or Variomatic system. There's no clutch or roller driven variator as in a scooter system, so little scope for tuning the transmission such as with different rollers.

Pierro Taruffi Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffs, UK   GBR
1923 CycleKart Vintage "Voisin Laboratoire"
The only reason we use them is that it gives a variable drive ratio. You could use any form of clutch, but in most cases you then have one ratio. It's either good enough to start reasonably well, or it has an adequate top speed. Not both.
The "torque convertor" allows to have more of the best at both ends.

Torro123 Avatar
Torro123 René Wesselius
Amsterdam, NH, Netherlands   NLD
O.K.now i understand whygrinning smiley
I have been searching to where i can buy one in the Netherlands but no succes for now.
For the engine i am looking for a Honda clone as the real thing is very expansive overhere.
For the rest of the build i will make most parts myself,would be interesting to do.
René

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Pierro Taruffi Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffs, UK   GBR
1923 CycleKart Vintage "Voisin Laboratoire"
If you want, I will be importing several from the US, no chinese copies (junk) shortly to help. I don't yet have prices, but contact me if you want me to give you a price.

Torro123 Avatar
Torro123 René Wesselius
Amsterdam, NH, Netherlands   NLD
Thanks ,importing single pieces from the USA to Holland will be expansive shipping costs,when i can't find it overhere i will be contacting you.
René

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Pierro Taruffi Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffs, UK   GBR
1923 CycleKart Vintage "Voisin Laboratoire"
I will be re-establishing my dealer arrangements, IF there is enough interest from UK and Europe. Selling at minimal margin to help out CK builders

Hello Torro123,

You might inquire with Fabrice B he has a couple of CMS and is in France. They have started a French cyclekart website, but in my quick search it didn't come up. They have been using a CVT and a European engine that is not a BSD price.
I'm not trying to chase you away, just giving you another resource to check out.

TX
Mr fixit
Chris. smiling smiley.

akumabito Avatar
akumabito Joost van Ekris
Smilde, Drenthe, Netherlands   NLD
Hallo René! Succes alvast met je project. smiling smiley

I've only found one reseller in the Netherlands that carries these CVT's: https://www.halvewerk.nl/variomatic

I'm not entirely convinced from the pictures, it says it's a PTM brand. No idea if they're any good. They seem awfully close to the cheap Chinese knock-offs you can find on eBay and AliExpress.

I have considered adapting a CVT set off a scooter. Last year I bought a CVT set off a Peugeot Ludix scooter for 30 euros. It's a CVT combined with a centrifugal clutch. It should work in theory, but it's meant to go on a splined shaft, so it could be a PITA to somehow mount.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
The scooter CVT's have the advantage that they can be tuned to suit the engine characteristics, and weight of what's being driven. Changing the roller weight changes the rate at which the variator closes: lighter rollers = slow actuation = acceleration; heavier rollers = faster actuation = higher top speed (within the limits of engine power). The clutch springs can also be changed to adjust the revs that the clutch bites at. There is also a reduction gearbox at the back end after the clutch, and provision for a brake on the output shaft. I don't know if those advantages are enough to justify the effort of adapting it, I intend to "cheat" and build a Morgan type with the back end of a 125cc moped.

I had a quick look at ebay and found this UK supplier: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Go-Kart-Wakeboarding-winches-CVT-Torque-Converter-1-Bore-used-many-karts-/112266403077?hash=item1a23995d05:g:OpEAAOSwopRYd2B~; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Go-Kart-Wakeboarding-CVT-Torque-Converter-as-used-on-many-Manco-Dingo-karts-/112266396984?hash=item1a23994538:g:OpEAAOSwopRYd2B~.

Don't know how the price compares with the Netherlands supplier.

Chris

Torro123 Avatar
Torro123 René Wesselius
Amsterdam, NH, Netherlands   NLD
I found this in Germanyhttp://www.wiltec.de/motor-benzinmotor-dieselmotor-benzinwasserpumpe-oelbadkupplung-kartmotor/benzinmotoren-lifan-oelbadkupplung-kartmotor-austauschmotor/lifan-177-benzinmotor-6-6kw-9ps-mit-olbadkupplung-kartmotor.html
Perhaps this is a better deal price-wise as a Honda(clone)and a cvt.
I think the cvt at Halvewerk is expansive compared to the engines they have,the cvt Chris found is cheaper.
As this is gonna be my first attempt to a CK i really don't want to spent too much money on it,first because i am a cheap dutchman and second if the CK is ready there is almost no chance i can ride it many times in the area i live in so it might end up as a garden ornament.......
So i want a cheap drive train,for me the challenge is to fabricate the frame,axles,spindles,steering etcetera myself out of raw materials.
I do have a lathe and a mill,welder,beadroller and most of the tools you can ever need to build a CK,just design and building is my thing.
René

akumabito Avatar
akumabito Joost van Ekris
Smilde, Drenthe, Netherlands   NLD
Those clutches work fine. A few people over at the French Cyclekart Club (http://www.cyclekart-fr.com/) use them with no problems whatsoever.

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