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Bill's Electric Duesenberg GP 1921

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bim9bill Avatar
bim9bill Bill Debevc
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA   USA
I think I have picked the car to go with.

I am down to the Duesenberg GP 1921, Miller91 or the Austin 7 Special.

I am leaning towards the Duisenberg because I can get a 3D model to start from. I may change up the back end up a bit, and my fabrication skills may not be up t the challenge, but we will see, I have some time. Here is the link to the model: https://3docean.net/item/duesenberg-gp-1921-high-poly-3d-model/8847143


I do have a question on the motor and such. I think I will be going with the 3KW BLDC Motor from this place: https://www.goldenmotor.com and 48v worth of batteries 18-20a depending on the price.

Am I fooling myself and my wallet thinking the 3K BLDC motor will do the trick?

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PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
Cool, another electric CK!
Johnny D, who has the most electric CK experience, is pretty committed to going with the 3KW/ very light construction route. I'm planning on the 5KW set-up because I have uses for the motor/controller/battery other than the CK. I also want my CK to definitely be competitive with the gassers.
Good luck with the Duesy! Please keep us posted.

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
Wow!!..... 25kw, liquid cooled, 118 ft lb torque! Now that would spin the
spokes right off the hubs!! Only problem, by the time ya got enough
battery and radiator for that one, you would have a 600 lb kart.

dg

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PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
Hey Bill,
Can you please explain the Deusenberg 3Dmodel to me? If you pay the $29 do you get a 3D printer file that prints out all the individual pieces (wheels, exhaust, body etc) in plastic? How big is the finished model? It looks incredible!

What kind of battery are you going to run? I'm planning to use a 47V Chevy Volt battery with BMS from EV Battery Center who are right there in Las Vegas. Nick is the guy to talk to. He seems very helpful and knowledgeable.

http://evbatterycenter.com/HAC4/index.php?option=com_hikashop&view=category&layout=listing&Itemid=680

bim9bill Avatar
bim9bill Bill Debevc
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA   USA
Thanks for the lead on the batteries.

I have not decided yet which way to go on the batteries. I was thinking of these to start: http://www.electricscooterparts.com/scooterbatteries12v18ah.html. I know they are heavy but hopefully I can make up the difference by not eating as much chocolate.

I will let you know about the 3D model soon.

Bill.

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
The deletion of Chocolate seems to be the theme here on the CycleKart Forum.confused smiley
Brian

bim9bill Avatar
bim9bill Bill Debevc
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA   USA
I invested in the 3D model today. It is not a solid, it's a mesh, but I new that. Because it's a mesh printing it will take some work.

but It's a great model and something I can cut sections in to get the CycleKart figured out.

Now to design. I will upload DWG Files as I go.

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PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
I can't wait to see how the 3D body works out.
About that battery: I'm certainly no expert, but I think the12V-18ah lead acids might kinda' sabotage your plans. 18ah of lead acid are nothing like lithium. You'll have a pretty limited run time. It'd be a shame to build a beautiful CK around these, then have to chop up the build to accommodate a better battery pack. The 47ah Volt lithium battery would have lots more than 3X the run time of the your 18ah.
Have you checked out the electric builds on the gittreville site?

www.gittrevillegp.com

Then click on The Cars C, and look at the Austin Seven Boulogne.(sorry, I don't know how to make links on this IPad).
You might be even more inspired by the electric Morgan (The Cars B?)
Johnny Dumfries also built an electric Bugatti and is currently (get it?) finishing up an awesome electric Miller.

PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
In reply to # 23688 by Woodysrods The deletion of Chocolate seems to be the theme here on the CycleKart Forum.confused smiley
Brian

I think Chocolate's getting a bad rap here. As long as it's good and dark I think it's excellent driver fuel. For "adding lightness" get rid of all those starchy carbs!

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bim9bill Avatar
bim9bill Bill Debevc
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA   USA
Bryan Here is what the model looks like in AutoCAD. It's what is called a polyface mesh, not a solid. So sections are going to be more work, but doable.

Thank you for the heads up on the batteries, looks like I will need to save a bit more to get better batteries.


Attachments:
Duce1.jpg    20.8 KB
Duce1.jpg

bim9bill Avatar
bim9bill Bill Debevc
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA   USA
Here are the 2d plans that I have so far based on the 3D model.

Edited to add more information:

I am thinking of going all wood for the frame. Using Cloth and aluminum / metal for the body.

I think I am a bit to narrow between the frame rails at the moment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-16 06:21 PM by bim9bill.


Attachments:
2017-04-16 Plans.jpg    20.3 KB
2017-04-16 Plans.jpg

MalibuMan Cas Tuyn
Weert, Limburg, Netherlands   NLD
Bill,

You have chosen exactly the same motor and 48V as I have. I think it will be good based on:
  • a bicycle with 500W engine and a 90 kg person (max 250W) = 750 W can go about 45 km/h
  • the cyclekart with 1 driver and batteries weighs about 2x what 2 bicycles weigh
  • rolling resistance of 1 cyclekart = rolling resistance of 2 bicycles
So a cyclekart should need about 2x750 = 1500 W to go 45 km/h.

Due to air resistance increasing with speed 3000 W will not result in 90 km/h, I guess about 70 km/h.

With respect to your batteries, I made a calculation to use 66 Ah LiFePO4 batteries @ 48V to have a range of 80 km, and still have 20% in the batteries (you should not empty them completely). That is a little less than 2 hours riding. But they discontinued the 66Ah batteries, now I aim for:

https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-300Ah/SP-LFP100AHA-Lithium-Cell-LiFePO4-3-2V-100Ah.html

which is 100 Ah so should get me 121 km range and at least 2 hours driving.

I also watched a few videos of how to make your own Tesla-style batteries from individual 18650 cells or the newer 2170 cells, but found that too much work.

bim9bill Avatar
bim9bill Bill Debevc
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA   USA
Thank you for the link that is a great resource.

I am still a bunch of months out from having a running Kart. Please keep us updated on your progress.

Bill.

PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
Hi Bill,
I know your build is a long term project but don't put your karts before your horses. Placement of the battery pack is crucial. I actually think the electric karts may end up having an advantage over the rear engined karts in the handling department. By placing the battery weight towards the front we can balance the weight distribution and avoid some of the understeer tendencies of the gassers with the light front ends and both rear wheels driven.
I went to an electric CK test day where a couple of our electric CK pioneers we're dialing in their karts. They're just wanting to get the performance up to the level of the gassers and have a run time long enough to compete at Tieton. I think they are basically there using the 5KW Golden Motor motor/controler/30ah liFe set up. I've decided to go with the 47ah Volt battery because my powertrain needs to be able to do double duty on some farm projects when not employed for fun CK activities.

Good luck!

MalibuMan Cas Tuyn
Weert, Limburg, Netherlands   NLD
I agree with Bryan. Batteries are too heavy to place behind the driver/rear axle without resulting in early Porsche 911-like driving behaviour.

16 x 100 Ah batteries is 49.6 kg. They take up a space of 284 x 488 x 221 mm. While they can be distributed along the sides of the cyclekart, I choose to put mine together and create a cargo space above them. In my case a foldable shopping crate so i can use my streetlegal cyclekart for shopping.

With the 100 kg driver near the rear axle, and the 50 kg batteries + 20 kg groceries near the front axle, all inside the wheelbase you will have a very balanced weight distribution. That 3kW electric motor is only 8 kg so its weight behind the rear axle will have little impact.

From front to back my cyclekart will be:
  • 30 cm front wheel assembly and steering
  • 55 cm battery bay and cargo space above
  • 155 cm driver space (still investigating if that's enough or too much)
  • 60 cm rear wheel assembly, electric motor and gearing

So in total 3 m long. A bit out of the spec, but a long bonnet looks very nice on any car. If you place your batteries against the two sides you can be 55 cm shorter. But for street-legal they must be placed outside the passenger cell.

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