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Brakes. It's time to get a little more serious.

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
I know, I know. I can already hear the howls of protest. "If you start making meaningful upgrades to the systems of a cyclekart, you're liable to start an arms race and before you know it, everyone will be going 100mph and it'll ruin everything!"
But the truth is, the little go-kart discs or drums most of us have installed are completely overwhelmed by 500 lbs of kart and driver bombing down into corner after tight corner. At Tieton I would start a heat
with adequate brake, but 3 laps of very sparing use later, there would not even be enough left to bring the car to an easy stop for a driver change! Imagine, rolling by your waiting co-driver shaking your head!
I saw this repeated many times. If you could get them to actually stop, the overheated little units were as likely to seize up, requiring a savage wheelchairing session to bust their grip. I realize that this was a particular trait of the Airheart type, but it was widespread.

All I require are brakes that are on par with the steering, grip,acceleration, and speed of my car.
I will be following the trend of installing motorcycle brakes.
Enough!

Bentaxle

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gearguy Charles Schultz
Oil City, Pennsylvania, USA   USA
There are excellent and cheap hydraulic brake parts from Chinese ATVs on EBay. I bought single & double pistion calipers for $25 each including pads and mounting bits. A dual piston master cylinder with a proper balance bar and brake light sensor was also $25. At the time BMI was closing out 8" brake discs for $2 each. The brakes fit their standard rake hub for a 1" axle. A great high tech brake system for $80 to $150; I will have 4 wheel brakes on my tank with a bias adjuster. Not per the formula but my 550 pound kart & driver needs to stop when I push the

Antioch Bob M
Langley, BC, Canada   CAN
1929 CycleKart French "LR2 Special"
Dave.... take heart as you aren't the only kart returnee from Tieton this year looking for a brake upgrade.

Kurt & I are both looking at options as well.



Rosengart LR2 special

http://rosengart.rzaplaser.com/rosengart-lr2-build/

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Sounds like a good option. I've heard of a little frustration setting some of them up.
Kind of waiting for a good report.

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
On our Crazy Canuck entry, Don's Kart snapped one of those Airheart (GoKart) brake callipers right in half one the 3rd lap of the Grand Prix and had to pull out of the race.
I believe a dual piston hydraulic caliber is the only way to go.
Sam build mine with dual callipers and rotors on my diff style rear axle.
Plus an Airheart gokart caliber as an "Emergency" brake.
I don't know if front brakes would be of any use on a cyclekart due to the lack of weight on the front tires.????
Woody

gt350rspeed Avatar
gt350rspeed Christopher Coffman
Spartanburg, South Carolina, USA   USA
1929 CycleKart Great Britain "Charly"
1930 CycleKart French "Carlylou"
I'm in the middle of a hydraulic brake upgrade. Should be done by now but I've got two different pond projects going in my backyard right now. I plan to have the new brake pedal/master cylinder mount back in the car tomorrow and with a little luck should be stopping on a dime. As always my posts on social media can be found by searching #becausecyclekart

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
I don't see that upgrading the "stop" side of a cyclekart should be an issue, as long as it doesn’t lead to upgrading the "go" side, as that would fundamentally change what they are. My Morgan will have a drum brake because that's what the scooter came with, of course it is a 130mm automotive unit, so hopefully it'll be adequate.

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Chris.
I would imagine your system being that from the road legal scooter would be pretty effective. At least on par with the performance of it's motor. Which is all I'm really looking to achieve. I'm not looking for Formula 1 stopping power, just a much more balanced mix of go and stop. What I have now is fine for putting around the neighborhood and such. But a few hot laps and an unsafe condition develops.
Just hoping/trusting that if there is trouble immediately ahead on track, you'll somehow find an opening to slither through might be OK for completely caged and harnessed up NASCAR drivers, but in a C/K?
No thanks.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
Dave,

That's what I'm thinking, if the brake hand operated, can cope with a half share of a 100Kg (220lb) + rider scooter, capable of 60mph. Then foot operated it should cope with 120-130Kg of cyclekart capable of 40-50mph. Ideally I'd have got one with a hydraulic disc, but this one was only 15 miles away and £112 (-£9.91 road tax refund).

I agree with you for safety stopping power has to match speed capability, otherwise things can become dangerous very quickly.

Chris

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Dave 46 Robert Davison
Toppenish, WA, USA   USA
I saw a couple of those carts have trouble slowing down on the second or third lap at Tieton. That may be because there are some pretty long straights and then 90 degree turns. On shorter courses the carts may not get up to the speeds some were doing.

I'd say this is where safety overrides tradition.

Torro123 Avatar
Torro123 René Wesselius
Amsterdam, NH, Netherlands   NLD
My kart has an hydraulic rear brake(disc) and 2 front drum brakes,to keep out steerabilaty problems i made the front brakes hand operated as an e-brake and the rear pedal operated.
So in case of danger coming up i can pull the handle and have 2 extra brakes,i think this will be enough.

ga.bob Bob Taylor
Perry, georgia, USA   USA
I am in the final building stages of my Kart. Its good to hear the potential brake problems I could encounter racing this thing! I have already installed the mechanical disc brake, but I am also adding a hand lever operated drum brake as well. My first thought was that the hand brake has a great nostalgic look, but it could offer up some much needed aux. braking when the disc fades. The four inch drum and band with a simple linkage should not add much weight to my cart, and the extra stopping would be worth it.


Bob

JTremain Avatar
JTremain Justin Tremain
Oak HArbor, Washington, USA   USA
We run a hydraulic brake setup on the standard Azusa disc. Brakes work great, didn't experience any fade by the end of a race. We've got plans for two more karts and will utilize the same setup.

Personally, I see no need for having a combination of brakes. Just one good disc is all you really need. I'd say we were going plenty fast and never had a brake issue.

Just my 2 pennies



"Magic Man"
Team Doin It Wrong

1929 Fiat Gypsy
"The terror of Tieton"
"The 1965 911 of cyclekarts"

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
I am of the same mind, Justin. I would rather have one really effective brake than pair up two marginal ones in hopes they can support one another. I already have a complete rear system from a sportbike on the way. I remind myself that there are many automobiles, even sports cars equipped with brakes that are fine for motoring around and a hard stop here and there, but that turn to smoking mush if ever put through a few hot laps. Most cyclekarts will never be abused in this way, and the typical setups will be
sufficient for them. However, if you plan to actually race the car Bob, I would really encourage anyone to tackle the issue while still building, rather than having retrofit after having had a few harrowing moments in race traffic. I wish I had.

Bentaxle

platypus-oz Avatar
platypus-oz stewart s
nowra, nsw, Australia   AUS
It seems to be a problem even in the Shell Eco Challenge in Singapore this year it was the major problem in scrutinineering. Even car makers get it wrong so just do your best. Rules and regulations will kill the hobby.Sprint cars and gravity racers have no brakes and they survive. Drive to the conditions.

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