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Started CycleKart #3 with suspension

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Well, should have, and needs to have correct KPI turns out to be two different things when it comes to
cyclekarts. Ever since those Stevensons started with those straight Azusa spindles, with apparently no ill effect, the practice has continued. To the point that probably 95 pct run with no KPI whatsoever. Not to say that it's correct, just that it seems not to be as vital with the skinny tires.

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1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, Florida, USA   USA
1900 Ford Model 01 "Quadricycle"
1908 Harley-Davidson Pre-War
1965 AC Cobra
Just trying to explain what KPI is, that's all. You can probably get away with a lot of things on a kart that's light weight not capable of very high speeds. That being said, if you're going to build it, why not incorporate all the things in the front end geometry that we know work. Like KPI, scrub radius and ackerman. These things are as important as castor camber and toe. When you're working with 6-10 horsepower, you don't want to be scrubbing off speed in the corners if you can help it You need all the advantages you can get.

moto-klasika Avatar
moto-klasika Zoran R. P.
Bern, Bern, Switzerland   CHE
In reply to # 26717 by CmdBentaxle Well, should have, and needs to have correct KPI turns out to be two different things when it comes to cyclekarts. Ever since those Stevensons started with those straight Azusa spindles, with apparently no ill effect, the practice has continued. To the point that probably 95 pct run with no KPI whatsoever. Not to say that it's correct, just that it seems not to be as vital with the skinny tires.
====================================================================

Hello, Dave!
It seems that some art was lost in the history of CycleKarts, from Stevenson era up to now?

Most of their CycleKarts (Pete's, or son Mike's, or brother Bill's or of their friends) have proper king-pin inclination and often visible camber, with other steering principles of old Ackerman!
Attached is one Pete's hand-sketch and one similar, but computerised (maybe of some member?), and a pair of photos.

Maybe of some use or not, but as Rick said: "That being said, if you're going to build it, why not incorporate all the things in the front end geometry that we know work"...

Ciao,
Zoran



Zoran R. Pualić
(mostly living in Bern, Swiss & happy in my Belgrade, Serbia)

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LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, Arizona, USA   USA
I think the discussion of KPI, ackerman, Caster, etc belong in its own topic thread so folks can research, comment on it there.

moto-klasika Avatar
moto-klasika Zoran R. P.
Bern, Bern, Switzerland   CHE
Hello, Rowell!
Your complaint could be good in a case of general discussion about "... of KPI, Ackerman, Caster, etc ...", but comments started about YOUR design of YOUR steering on YOUR CylceKart in YOUR topic? ... and, you were active in that?

Your design and construction are magnificent, but some members found some issues about some details (steering or rear suspension), that could be useful for other members to be clarified!
All the best in following work, with or without other member's comments!

Zoran



Zoran R. Pualić
(mostly living in Bern, Swiss & happy in my Belgrade, Serbia)

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
I must agree with you guys that if a fellow has the means to build his own spindles, it would
be senseless for him to neglect getting it right. The extra complication of doing so, along with the ease
of getting prefab spindles without proper KPI must be what drives most builders that direction.
I stand corrected Zoran! I wrongly credited the Stevensons with the practice, but there is the evidence!
I wonder where it did start?
Anyway, nice build Lowell. I'm interested in how those little coilovers work
out.

LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, Arizona, USA   USA
In reply to # 26723 by moto-klasika Hello, Rowell!
Your complaint could be good in a case of general discussion about "... of KPI, Ackerman, Caster, etc ...", but comments started about YOUR design of YOUR steering on YOUR CylceKart in YOUR topic? ... and, you were active in that?

Zoran

Ha, I wasn't complaining. Just suggesting that these are design topics that apply to all cars. And someone searching for the topic isn't likely to see it my Subject line.
Lowell

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Notso-Chinsee Avatar
Notso-Chinsee Gold Member Albert Lies
Spokane Valley, Washington (WA), USA   USA
Use the Search and check this thread from Rhys Nolan it's a good read. there are others also.


An essay on suspension design



Al Lies
The "Not-So Chinsee" guy

classical-gas Scot Laughlin
Bellingham, washington, USA   USA
+
You are going to need radius rods, along with that panhard rod, even without functional front brakes. Bump steer and other weirdness happens if the front axle can move any direction other than vertical.

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LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, Arizona, USA   USA
In reply to # 26830 by classical-gas +
You are going to need radius rods, along with that panhard rod, even without functional front brakes. Bump steer and other weirdness happens if the front axle can move any direction other than vertical.

They are hard to see but they are there.

LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, Arizona, USA   USA
Make my first drive of the chassis! I have an engine miss that I need to address. It doesn't accelerate very well with misses and pops. I was so focused on the engine that I forgot to check the ride. So I made another round and I feel it definitely rides softer than my previous Cyclekarts. I didn't see much if any flexing of the front shocksprings. I'll try to get some video of the front and rear shocksprings in action.

RROLDSX Randy R
Delta, BC, Canada   CAN
Lowell:

It would be real interesting to note the difference in “eyeball bounce” and loss of control,if any, between your non-suspension kart and this one. I’m keen to copy some of your design if it works.

Randy

carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Try a new plug, go to any FLAPS and they can match it up for an NGK.

LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, Arizona, USA   USA
I had modified my carburetor with a new emulsion tube and jet and I must not have done that correctly. I switched back to another stock carburetor I had and now the engine runs nicely. I drove the car over a few speed bumps in the neighborhood and I definitely think it rides softer that my other CycleKarts. I'm going to see if any of the grandkids have a selfy stick I can use to video the shock/springs while driving. If Iget some good video, I'll post it here.

Notso-Chinsee Avatar
Notso-Chinsee Gold Member Albert Lies
Spokane Valley, Washington (WA), USA   USA
Lowell
That would be cool to see or maybe I should say educational either way I would love to see it and hear your thoughts.
Al



Al Lies
The "Not-So Chinsee" guy

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