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My 1935 Miller-Ford V8 build is started

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1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, Florida, USA   USA
1900 Ford Model 01 "Quadricycle"
1908 Harley-Davidson Pre-War
1965 AC Cobra
There was no damage to my house from Hurricane Irma, and all the tree debris is cleaned up in the yard, so I was able to spend some quality time in the shop today.
I figured out all the complex angles to the frame rails and cut them, then laid them out on my template drawn with a sharpie on the floor. My grand daughter says "Papa, you wrote on the floor!" LOL
So it's just tacked together for now.
I'm exited to get working on my design. It's going to be a very low frame with an under slung torsion bar front suspension. The frame will actually be the very lowest part of the body. The lower the CG, the better. I've designed the suspension to have adjustable ride-height, caster, camber, and proper KPI. I have a few ideas on how to do that and I'll be posting pics regularly. Except for the torsion bars. I might have to keep them a secret until I'm able to test drive it. It's easier to argue with someone who says it won't work by telling them "I tried it and it DOES work".

Rick

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Attachments:
Indycar frame.jpg    31.4 KB
Indycar frame.jpg

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Good Luck with your project Rick.
We will be watching patiently as it progresses.thumbs up
Woody

dBlast Avatar
dBlast Vince De Blasi
Maple, Ontario, Canada   CAN
Nice start on your cyclekart!

It is always interesting to see what other toys people have in their garages.

I see a Cobra thumbs up cool smiley

But, what is that belt driven motorized bicycle/motorcycle/moped/exercise machine?

Vince.

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1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, Florida, USA   USA
1900 Ford Model 01 "Quadricycle"
1908 Harley-Davidson Pre-War
1965 AC Cobra
Vince, click on my member name (1908Rick) at the top of this post next to the little picture of the Indy car.
My member page will come up.
Scroll down to the "Personal Vehicle Registry" and you will find more pictures and a brief description of that belt driven motorized bicycle/motorcycle/moped/exercise machine called a Harley Davidson.
It's one of my several projects I built years ago just for fun. I wanted to see if I could build a v-twin from scratch and make it run.
Search "1908 Harley replica" on youtube and see some video.

Rick

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Hi Rick
I as watching a Video on YouTube of the Millers at the Amelia Con Couers.
There were some nice pictures of a 35 Ford/Miller which made me think of your new project.
How is it coming?
Any progress reports?
Good Roads
Woody

1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, Florida, USA   USA
1900 Ford Model 01 "Quadricycle"
1908 Harley-Davidson Pre-War
1965 AC Cobra
Hey Brian,

I have the main frame rails welded up and I've been working on the front suspension and axle. There are a lot of brackets and things that need to be made, plus I'm making the spindles and steering parts from scratch too. I'll post some pics when there;s something to see.

I'll look for that video on youtube.. Thanks for the tip.

Rick

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Hi Rick
Yes I remember how amazed I was at how many small pieces I fabricated or machined while building my front end.
Wanted it to look like an original Miller!
Keep up the good work.thumbs up
We are sure it is going to be amazing.
Brian

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1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, Florida, USA   USA
1900 Ford Model 01 "Quadricycle"
1908 Harley-Davidson Pre-War
1965 AC Cobra
I want mine to look like the original Miller also, so I had to design the entire suspension to fit inside the body, because all you can see outside the body is those aluminum wing-like covers over the suspension. So I came up with a torsion bar set-up with everything adjustable. It's probably mostly unnecessary and overkill for a cycle kart, but I enjoy doing it.


Attachments:
1935-Miller-Ford-Indianapolis-Race-Car-in-Austin-Texas.jpg    71.3 KB
1935-Miller-Ford-Indianapolis-Race-Car-in-Austin-Texas.jpg

gearguy Charles Schultz
Oil City, Pennsylvania, USA   USA
The Miller-Fords were among the best looking cars of the Junk Formula years. The suspension in an airfoil section is a key design element so you are right to retain it. I worked with torsion bars on my midget race cars and posted my drawings for CK torsion bars that can be made from stuff in the McMaster & Carr catalog. The math is very simple and you do not need anything more than a hack saw and a drill press.

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Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Torsion bars have always fascinated me.........I love them.
And Charles.....you know how to do the math on these???
Brian

gearguy Charles Schultz
Oil City, Pennsylvania, USA   USA
The torsion bar drawings were part of my design experiment for a "no weld" CK.
The calculations require two formulas and (3) specific dimensions:
J = 3.1416 x (bar diameter ^4) /32 [bar dia to the 4th power; was in error earlier]
rate = .0833 x 11,500,000 x J /length of bar/length of arm

bar diameter is in the "working" section of the bar; on race cars the diameter is turned down to soften the spring rate
11,500,000 is for steel regardless of heat treat or hardness; heat treat just effects the service life of the bar not the rate
bar length is the "working length and does not include the portions covered by the arm or the stop
arm length is from the center of the bar to the center of the attachment or contact point.
For my drawing the arm is 6 inches and the length is 10 inches.

I show a "parallel" bar arrangement. They can also be used in a "cross bar" arrangement with the bars at 90 degrees to the axle; math is not effected.

I hope this helps.

For a .5" dia, bar 10" long with a 6" reaction arm: J = .006135, wheel rate is 98 pounds per inch.
Longer bar reduces rate; longer arm reduces rate. For CK purposes you can "tune" the wheel rates by changing the bar length. On race cars the lengths were dictated by the chassis structure so we changed the diameters.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-09 10:27 AM by gearguy.


Attachments:
NOWELD.pdf    152 KB

NOWELD2.pdf    71.3 KB
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Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Wow!
It looks like you have done all of the work here for a CK application!
I didn't understand a word of it, but am very impressed.
So if it works as well as it sounds you and Rick need to talk.
Thanks to both of you for another interesting build thread.
Good Roads
Brian

gearguy Charles Schultz
Oil City, Pennsylvania, USA   USA
My original posting had an error in the formula. Did we ever get a conclusion on what spring rates work best? A .5" torsion bar 10 inches long with a 6" reaction arm gives 98 pounds per inch in rate. Loner bar gets softer, shorter bar gets stiffer. Longer arm lowers the wheel rate.
A noted chassis engineer taught me that rate determines how far the chassis moves. Shock absorbers [dampers] determine how fast it goes there and how

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Does the Torsion bar not eliminate the use of the transverse spring?
Brian

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Rick
Where and how did you find pictures, drawings, or specs for the Miller-Ford front suspension?
Brian

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