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Speeeed......but not for everyone!

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
If talking performance and speed from a Cyclekart is not your game, and if you’re satisfied
with yard kart performance from a Cyclekart, then I would recommend that you read no
further. Because just like politics, it will as in the past, just end up in and argument as to
the direction you feel these vehicles and this sport are headed.
So, here we go again……not having a test bed running is really killin’ me. There are so
many ideas that I want to test out for my own self satisfaction.
There are a few two man acts on youtube where the guys hack their way thru a gokart
build or mod. They actually do seem to know what they’re doing, even if it’s lacking in
quality of workmanship.
Red Beard’s Garage is one and Cars and Cameras is another. I’ve watched both sites
episodes of the guys learning from their mistakes, and dumb mistakes they often are.
Over what appears to be a couple of years they have seem to learn from their mistakes
and the presentations have improved. Both sites are sponsored by GoPower Sports who
apparently supplies them with parts to mod the engines and drive train.
The episode in Red Beard’s Garage that I watched last night is the one where, using a
212 hemi Predator with a stage one mod kit, i.e., air cleaner, exhaust and carb re-jetting
only, it’s equipped with a Comet Torque Converter, running a 60 tooth driven sprocket.
A GPS times them at 50mph (80.47kmh)…. running on tiny gokart tires at that.
They switch to a 48 tooth driven sprocket and clock in at 56 mph (90.12kmh)…..on tiny
gokart tires. The karts have plenty of power for acceleration as shown by the drifting that
they are doing in the drive way, no doubt because of those…..tiny gokart tires.
The question that keeps popping into my mind is…. running the exact same stock
Predator engine, drive train and gear ratios that we do, the only difference being the
huge 17”motorcycle wheels that we use and a little more weight maybe 75lbs…..why
are they reaching speeds of 56mph when no one here has reported much better than
the low to mid 40’s on a good day????? With the huge tires, we should be seeing speeds
much higher than a gokart with…..those tiny gokart tires geared the same.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

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Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Hi Denny
You have not been watching enough youtube video attached to this Forum or specific to CycleKarts.
As the is video from both Tieton & Arizona that shows speeds north of 50 mph.
And in the Gordon Bennett race this year, I am sure the "Gypsy" was closing in on 60 mph in a couple sections, if they did not achieve it already??
But Yes, the numbers do (size of gears) suggest that there is no problem going faster. But, there are other factors (size of testicles) that come into play with these twitchy little machines.
Good Roads
Brian
PD
Get back to work.......on the CycleKart!winking smiley

1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, Florida, USA   USA
1900 Ford Model 01 "Quadricycle"
1908 CycleKart Vintage "Lizzy"
1908 Harley-Davidson Pre-War
1965 AC Cobra    & more
Obviously, they are able to get more RPM from the motors than cycle kart guys are getting. I'd like to know what RPM they are cranking those motors to. I don't have a "test bed" running yet either, but I'm anxious to get it done and try some speed runs. A couple factors I see as being a big difference are weight, and most likely aerodynamics. A lot of cycle karts are as aero as a brick and the drivers are sitting upright in the wind. That makes a big difference at 50 MPH.

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Bow Avatar
Bow Reverend Bow
Yuma, Arizona, USA   USA
1932 Morgan 3 Wheeler "BME Special"
In reply to # 27619 by Denny Graham why
are they reaching speeds of 56mph when no one here has reported much better than
the low to mid 40’s on a good day?????

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Mine runs 50.33 MPH (GPS) ... Fast enough to know the wheels need to be balanced

I'm running a Predator with basic mods as well and that was a naked body frame... Right now I'm torn down for Paint and finish...



Bow

Cut it with and Axe, Beat it to Fit, Paint it to Match



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-11-30 04:37 PM by Bow.

RROLDSX Randy R
Delta, BC, Canada   CAN
Personally, I don’t see an issue. If you want a faster kart and are not afraid to run it go for it. At some point a division will have to be made because of the safety issues speed differentials will create. At that point maybe a modified category will be required. If CycleKarting gets that popular we can afford to having two separate categories of racing great. Those rules are usually made by the organizers anyway. They’ll need to set those limits. I’ll probably run mine stock until I have enough experience and expertise to run faster. I have raced in the past with buddies etc. and I know where it goes. It gets silly and possibly even dangerous. That’s when I’m sure us as a group will say enough is enough and the spilt will happen.Silly people will move on with other silly people and be happy. I don’t see that happening quite yet. I need to get to the stage before I can think about Stage 1,2 or 3 modifications.

JTremain Avatar
JTremain Justin Tremain
Oak HArbor, Washington, USA   USA
Here's the link to our GB video.


We ran it with 10/44 gearing and nrracing stage 2, those kits fall within the gittreville stage 1 guidelines. I think it's a combo of kart weight and tire diameter (2x17, the ones everyone said wouldn't work) but we do things wrong, so I don't know



"Magic Man"
"Cole Trickle"
"NightHawk"
Team Doin It Wrong

1927 Nash Modified: Legion Special

1929 Fiat Gypsy
"The terror of Tieton"
"The 1965 911 of cyclekarts"

Bow Avatar
Bow Reverend Bow
Yuma, Arizona, USA   USA
1932 Morgan 3 Wheeler "BME Special"
Agreed...

Or buy another Predator and have them modded for different classes... A Stage 1 engine (what most people claim they run) and and more modified (what most people probably actually run in real life)



Bow

Cut it with and Axe, Beat it to Fit, Paint it to Match

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Now ya see, we just had a thread goin' a while back that was meant to
gather up some data on the speeds the guys were turning. Not many
took the time to record it, but among the few that did report in, I don't
remember anyone reporting speeds like you mentioned.
That Predator on the gokart was not cranking over 5k because Red Beard
is quite aware of the danger of over revving with the stock flywheels and
didn't sound fond of the idea of picking shrapnel out of his back..
I have noticed some of the guys here and, with the Gitterville bunch,
retrofitting their Predators with billet flywheels, obviously they're planning
on high revs to milk every bit of HP they can get from them. Along with
that goes the stronger valve springs. And the stock rods don't seem
to take the punishment for very long either. Gotta do a little porting
and clean up to get them to breath better at those higher RPM.
And you don't want to choke them down with a stock carb so
a rebore is needed to get them pony's galloping.
I've been chastised Randy, for suggesting the possibility of a modified
class. A good portion of the group want to keep things real tame and
none competitive. You know, just happy to drive around with the wind in
their face and avoid the stress of competition. That would get real boring
in a relatively short time for me.
dg

Bow Avatar
Bow Reverend Bow
Yuma, Arizona, USA   USA
1932 Morgan 3 Wheeler "BME Special"
At 50mph I was turning around 3800...

With a Tieton legal 0.625" bored Honda carb...



Bow

Cut it with and Axe, Beat it to Fit, Paint it to Match



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-01 08:38 AM by Bow.

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Helluva "yard kart" you got there, Justin.

Bow Avatar
Bow Reverend Bow
Yuma, Arizona, USA   USA
1932 Morgan 3 Wheeler "BME Special"
Agreed, he is flyin' low!

Great video



Bow

Cut it with and Axe, Beat it to Fit, Paint it to Match

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
What I find absolutely baffling is, that if it were as simple as changing to a
44 tooth driven sprocket, which you can buy from Azusa in aluminum
quick change for $29 or in steel from the farm store for $18, then
everyone would be keeping up with Justin. There's got to be more
to that speed and acceleration hidden under that bonnet.
At Tieton this year, I'd bet there wasn't one kart that was not running
stage 1 mods and a good big bunch that had up graded to stage 2.
The next step in upgrades and it's big brother is where the power band
really starts get impressive, along with their price tags.

As far as laying claim to a "stock" engines go, I think of this quote;
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people
all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
And that's where a rule book, a tech committee and inspection comes
into play. When you're actually running with well defined class rules, which
of course, I've seen any of that yet in in the Cyclekart hobby, then you
create an even playing field..
dg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-01 08:17 AM by Denny Graham.

Bow Avatar
Bow Reverend Bow
Yuma, Arizona, USA   USA
1932 Morgan 3 Wheeler "BME Special"
You don't get sumthin' for nuthin'...

Justin's 10/44 gear ratio is great for top end, but (depending on kart/driver combined weight) can be hard on the CVT belt

MOST people run a 10/50, 10/60, or 12/60 ratio... gearing it lower is good for acceleration, and is a bit easier on the CVT.

You have to find the happy medium you can live with.

With a 10/60 in my car, I can induce throttle over steer in a corner on dry blacktop... and on my 50+ MPH run, I was below 4000 RPM...

The cool thing about running a 10/44 ratio is his kart would probably be under the 3600 RPM governor speed of the engine the entire time.



Bow

Cut it with and Axe, Beat it to Fit, Paint it to Match

JTremain Avatar
JTremain Justin Tremain
Oak HArbor, Washington, USA   USA
I cannot be anymore transparent than this..... Here's the receipt for the purchase of the nr racing "stage 2" kit.

Hopefully we can now get passed the " they mustve done more to that engine" shananagins



"Magic Man"
"Cole Trickle"
"NightHawk"
Team Doin It Wrong

1927 Nash Modified: Legion Special

1929 Fiat Gypsy
"The terror of Tieton"
"The 1965 911 of cyclekarts"


Attachments:
nr racing.jpg    35.8 KB
nr racing.jpg

Bow Avatar
Bow Reverend Bow
Yuma, Arizona, USA   USA
1932 Morgan 3 Wheeler "BME Special"
Same setup I had on my Hemi Predator during my Run...



Bow

Cut it with and Axe, Beat it to Fit, Paint it to Match

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