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Invitation to SECOND Northeast CK Meet: 2 September 2017

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Thanks Nick, I appreciate you remembering my quest. I pick up scales at garage sales
just for that purpose, I just got another for a buck last weekend.
That actually comes as a surprise to me, I never would have thought the weight distribution
would be that good. In the videos your cart seems to handle quite good. Have you tried the
scales with a driver in the kart??? That would be interesting to see how it balances out
with that ballast on board.
I’m using a Riley Brooklands for my inspiration at present. But the work I did last
summer was for a Bug T35 and it also was the one that Jay Leno has in his collection
that got me going. Maybe it will be the second one, if I can ever get off my duff and finish
the first one.
50mph seems like a sweet spot for these. I’ve been doing some speed runs with my
Triumph Bonneville and Suzuki TU250 out in the pasture and on a short course off road
50 is plenty of speed. To me it seems like you would want to keep the straights somewhat
short when designing a CK course, at least on dirt. On the long straight runs on pavement,
like I see in the vids of Tieton, I think 50 would get pretty boring. That’s where a second,
higher gear would sure come in handy. In my mind, I think the secret to any Cyclekart
course is to keep the straights short enough for the karts to hit their peak speeds right
at the turn. Of course that’s the ideal gearing objective of any car on a race course. But
being limited by the torque converter in a CK, gearing for the turns is all important and
takes precedence over top speed.
I’d really be interested in hearing more reporting from the Tieton Vets how their wheels hold
up. According to Bryan it's a non existent problem?? Your course just didn't look all that
rough compared to the orchard. I’ve got a set of the VKC wheels for mine and on the
balancer/alignment stand they look real good right out of the box. If there is indeed a
problem with spokes loosening with use, then I think I’ll spring for a spoke torque wrench
as part of my took kit. Or.....maybe I’ll start dropping hints to Santa and I might find one
under the tree this Christmas.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us, looking forward to hearing about your up
coming meet.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

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DavidC5781 Dave C
East Greenwich, Rhode Island, USA   USA
Hey guys!!

So my wife and I will be there… is it ok if I bring my dog? She's super friendly and I know won't mind the noise.

As for bringing the cart, well what I originally planned on doing had been scrapped. Looking to see what everyone has done with theirs and try to get my wife the "approval" so I can build one finally.

Thanks,
Dave

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Hey Denny, and Nick. I have really paid attention to wheel durability since ( against sage advice ) I went with aluminum rims on my front end. I have never seen any wheel failure in a year and a half of doing this. I can't really be certain about previous years, but this year that orchard was an extremely destructive surface to be running across at speed. With all due respect to the above video, I see nothing in it even appoaching the Campbell place for speed or roughness. I must conclude that you got
a defective set of wheels Nick. Those spokes should not loosen on their own, period.
And Denny, until you drive a C/K doing 50, or even 40, I would hesitate to comment. If there is a sweet spot for these, it's probably closer to 35 according to most guys with experience. One day, hopefully soon, you'll see what they mean.
[quote="Denny Graham,25533,25822
Thanks Nick, I appreciate you remembering my quest. I pick up scales at garage sales
just for that purpose, I just got another for a buck last weekend.
That actually comes as a surprise to me, I never would have thought the weight distribution
would be that good. In the videos your cart seems to handle quite good. Have you tried the
scales with a driver in the kart??? That would be interesting to see how it balances out
with that ballast on board.
I’m using a Riley Brooklands for my inspiration at present. But the work I did last
summer was for a Bug T35 and it also was the one that Jay Leno has in his collection
that got me going. Maybe it will be the second one, if I can ever get off my duff and finish
the first one.
50mph seems like a sweet spot for these. I’ve been doing some speed runs with my
Triumph Bonneville and Suzuki TU250 out in the pasture and on a short course off road
50 is plenty of speed. To me it seems like you would want to keep the straights somewhat
short when designing a CK course, at least on dirt. On the long straight runs on pavement,
like I see in the vids of Tieton, I think 50 would get pretty boring. That’s where a second,
higher gear would sure come in handy. In my mind, I think the secret to any Cyclekart
course is to keep the straights short enough for the karts to hit their peak speeds right
at the turn. Of course that’s the ideal gearing objective of any car on a race course. But
being limited by the torque converter in a CK, gearing for the turns is all important and
takes precedence over top speed.
I’d really be interested in hearing more reporting from the Tieton Vets how their wheels hold
up. According to Bryan it's a non existent problem?? Your course just didn't look all that
rough compared to the orchard. I’ve got a set of the VKC wheels for mine and on the
balancer/alignment stand they look real good right out of the box. If there is indeed a
problem with spokes loosening with use, then I think I’ll spring for a spoke torque wrench
as part of my took kit. Or.....maybe I’ll start dropping hints to Santa and I might find one
under the tree this Christmas.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us, looking forward to hearing about your up
coming meet.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL
[/quote]

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Morning Dave, thanks for throwing you hat in the ring, much of the time I feel like I'm talking to the wall.
I'm a born skeptic anyway, you would think that I was born and raised int the "Show me state", that's
why I'm full of questions. And question the lack of durability of the aluminum wheels is one that sticks
in my mind. They have been used forever off-road on bikes where they take a terrible beating and
they seem to hold up just fine. I haven't been able to find any reports of failures on any of the cycle
forums I've looked at. The solid alloy wheels.......yep, lots of reports of cracking.
I've got a full set of VKCo's wheels, but I've also bought a couple of aluminum rims off ebay
to experiment with, in case you haven't noticed, I like to tinker!
And Dave, if I hesitated to comment until I got the kart up and running, there would be nothing
but a lot of quiet from this end for a very long time.
Four wheels are always a much more solid platform to plant you keister on vs two. As I noted,
since I picked up this light bike, (325lbs.) I've been doing a lot of comparison as to the effects
of speed on how comfortable I am on the different surfaces. On my T-100 Bonneville, I often,
still do run 80-90 when the road is well clear ahead of me and the bike feels quite stable.
60 is pushing it on that light Suzuki and I don't feel comfortable. Of course that's on a paved
surface. Cut those speeds in half when I'm down in the pasture.
The goal for my build is to have it max out at 60, I realize full well that will detract from the
low speed performance but I'm not entering into competition with any Stevenson compliant
group of speedsters at this time. I don't know how accurate Justin's readings were, but
he reported that they were hitting that mark with the Gypsy, and judging from the way
they finished, high gearing didn't seem to effect they're overall performance.
Also, I'm setting up initially using a Predator 301, so for my use this is going to
give me quite a bit more torque coming out of the hole and gearing for 60 should
be no problem.
Coffee's ready......heading out to the barn. Got to make up for yesterday, the boss
made me mow all day.......another day wasted.
dg

Firehouse9114 Avatar
Firehouse9114 Nick Walters
Spencertown, NY, USA   USA
Hi Dave, glad you can make it. Dogs are welcome, although not in the pool and they will have to contend with my two small yappy pups smiling smiley

Denny, still haven't got to weigh my "ballast" as I have been working on the kart and course. I haven't forgotten.

As to the wheels, I don't think they are defective although I have ordered a backup set for the event. My backyard is definitely NOT the orchard. Max speed is not much north of 25, no real long straight always and I like it like that. It's turn to turn with you moving your weight around and holding the slide with the little gas you have. Think the hard left corner in the orchard that got rutted, sent plumes into the air and ultimately led to stitches. Every turn I have is like that but back to back. I'm not totally adverse to speed. I had a little Ninja 500 that got squirly at 90 so upgraded to a Honda intercepter that is rock solid way north of 100. I miss the ninja now as I don't seem to be able to get on the Honda without hitting 100 to get that seat of the pants fun. I am gonna be selling the Honda soon. It will result in a large ticket, a visit to the hospital or worse. Cyclekarts are for fun and my back yard is not a once yearly event where I might try to push a little harder. The turns, and just enough traction, are definitely putting the wheels at their limit. I think you should/need to tightened the wheels after a short break in period. I over tightened a few spokes to straighten the wheel that led to the failures. I suspect the run off is actually in the hubs and Jack from VKC has sent me a new set so I will keep you updated. I understand they are now putting them on a lath after welding although I still need to get everything back together and make sure it's not a problem with the axle. I have run a few hard laps with the broken spokes and so far things have not loosened up so we will see. It's just another thing for people to check before going out. It seems people are a like me, judging by the fact several people have ran out of gas during races, they jump in and go. I am trying eliminate as many problems as I can and remind myself to do a safety/gas check each time.

I guess I will find out next year if I can score an invite to the big event and get lucky enough to get into the Cambell cup if I have been successful.

Looking forward to seeing as many of you that can make it on the 2nd.
I'll post my number over on the events page in case any of you get lost.



"Richard Milhous Dastardly"

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Nick, did I mention that I love your track. The almost constant cornering in that 20 to 30 mph range is
right in the wheelhouse of these if you ask me. I so wish I was close enough to drop by.
Denny, I think alot of what makes the typical cyclekart notoriously squirrely at speeds beyond say, 40 mph is it's lack of any real suspension. Sure, they all have front springs and some even have rear springs. A few even feature some rudimentary lever shocks. But those bikes of yours, even the 250, feature properly engineered hydraulic suspension systems. Imagine welding some fixed rods in place of
the rear shocks, and replacing the front forks with some with undampened firm springs on that Suzuki!
Now take it for a spin, and tell me how comfortable you are doing 60 on it.
Yeah, we could GREATLY improve cyclekart suspensions pretty easily, and economically.
Why don't we? Honestly, in IMHO it's because they are more fun this way. Also, the sense of peril
that comes with any worthwhile adventure is realized at a lower velocity, requiring less space, less money, less everything.
This is why the over sophistication of these cars is so off-putting to alot of us.

PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, Oregon, USA   USA
Once again, Dave, extremely well said!
Speaking for myself, some people have a way with words and others of us...uh....no have way. (borrowed from Steve Martin)

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Well, thanks Bryan. That's kind of you to say.
I try to have fun with it all, while hopefully not babbling
too much.

Firehouse9114 Avatar
Firehouse9114 Nick Walters
Spencertown, NY, USA   USA


I think I have found out what's causing my wheel issues...



"Richard Milhous Dastardly"

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Now that's a little more like it. Wow, that Bug sure handles nice.
I don't know if it's an optical illusion but that outside RR looks
like the whole axle is bending in the turn.
dg

Firehouse9114 Avatar
Firehouse9114 Nick Walters
Spencertown, NY, USA   USA
Denny, not sure that's an optical illusion, lost 6 spokes after that run. Kart handles way better than expected but the 300lbs plus 200lbs of "ballast" seems to be taking its toll. Have some backup wheels and will balance them before the event so hopefully will hold up through the weekend. Now if we can just get more that 3 sign ups!



"Richard Milhous Dastardly"

jcny Avatar
jcny Silver Member John Corey
Melrose, New York, USA   USA
1927 CycleKart French "Sam"
Was off in the woods a few days - missed you all (but not that much...). Nick, I do believe you have found both the cause and the reason for wheel issues: just too much fun! See you there on the 2nd! C'mon you others, Sign up at the Events and Show up.



Builder: John 'the Fierce' Corey, aka Lord Emile Salmson (or Lordy Miles On Some)

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Okay, Nick.......you are wild man!
No wonder you broke some spokes.
Your videos are Great!
And everyone is worried about where to run their Cyclekarts????
Answer: Anywhere you point them!
Too Much Fun!
Good Roads
Woody
PS go to Post #24 for Video.......then just keep watching!
I watched them on my 60" screen.........simply amazing!

jcny Avatar
jcny Silver Member John Corey
Melrose, New York, USA   USA
1927 CycleKart French "Sam"
That's just how we do it here in the Northeast!



Builder: John 'the Fierce' Corey, aka Lord Emile Salmson (or Lordy Miles On Some)

Firehouse9114 Avatar
Firehouse9114 Nick Walters
Spencertown, NY, USA   USA
Glad you liked them Woody. Now if I can just stop breaking this one I could get my next one going again. I'm looking for a source to upgrade the spokes. Anyone have any suggestions on where to buy thicker ones?

Attached is the official poster, I'll have one for everyone that shows up. So far it only looks like I need to print 3! So if you want a poster or want to join the BBQ please sign up and let me know how many you are..



"Richard Milhous Dastardly"


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