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Can the sound?

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Glad you jumped in on this Vitaliy, you always seem to be the
voice of tranquility in a raging sea.
Tour de France......now that's an interesting and very thoughtful way
of comparing this hobby to an age old sport.
I suppose the cyclekart should remain right where it is to satisfy the
group that subscribes to the original concept.
No doubt my concept of what a cyclekart could be, should be something
best kept to myself. So that's about the conclusion that I've arrived at recently
since there are no events in my area or apparent chance that there well be in
the foreseeable future. I'll not be building to compete with anyone other than
my self. My original interest in cyclekarts stemmed from a long running desire
to have something resembling the midgets I ran in my youth. I had been searching
for ideas for something that had a bit of a punch to it that I could throw around the
pasture to keep up my reflexes. For a long time it was a junk yard four banger stuffed
into a simple frame with perhaps small trailer tires. Then when I stumbled on the
CK's I was drawn to the 20's inspiration cars because of the scale, the simplicity
and the low cost of them. The only down side for me was the lack of performance
that I see in the videos.
The point I'm at now is building for my self satisfaction. I'm definitely going to fit up
the 301 Hemi Predator which I have on the shelf. Encouraged by Joey's front engine
creation, I've even been making up some sketches of a front engine shaft driven
cyclecar for the second one. But with stronger wheels, perhaps from a 250cc and
up bike. Been looking and measuring the 90/90x18 wheels on the little Suzuki I
picked up this summer. In fact, I just yesterday bought a Honda and Yamaha
shaft drive rear axle unit to test out the feasibility of using them in a light cyclecar.
Also I'm on the verge of buying a Predator 670cc engine which Harbor Freight has
on sale now. I think that size engine would be perfectly suited for a front engine
concept cyclecar.
So if I'm not welcome here on this forum talking such trash, then so be it.
I have the time, the skill and am able to scrape up the money from my allowance to build
my kart/car my way. I thought that sharing some of my ideas and work might encourage
a new builder to try something a little outside of the box.
Enough cyclekart!!!! Now I gotta go crawl under an old 50's Chevy truck the rest of the week
and get her new springs installed. Couldn't shift her for the last 6 months because of my
broken right wrist and I really missed driving her.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

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carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Denny, I love builds, I'd like to see yours. We have a custom carts forum for you to post all the details.

We also have a Cyclecart tech forum for Stevenson/Gittreville type carts.

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Vic, I've grown to recognize the subtle suggestions, "I think your full of BS, so get out of here." in the replies
that you post..So...your message isn't going un-noticed.
But I'm like a lot of the guys here, with a kart in process. I don't have the luxury of devoting all of my spare time
to building a cyclekart and only a cyclekart. I'm just a one man show around here on a limited budget and a lot
of other things on my plate right now that take priority over some of my lesser important hobbies.
Lots of what I do is posted in my ad free photo album that anyone can access.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/dgraham
I try to post as much as I can there about what I'm doing in picture form.
And as you've eluded to in the past....no, I'm not spending all my time sitting in front of the computer, I just
came in this time for some lunch. Been stuck in the barn where I'm machining new brass bushings for the
leaf springs in my truck.
With winter fast approaching, I should have more time to get back on the Riley. First thing on the agenda
will be firing up the new forge and quench tank for the leaf springs. Then finishing up the frame and getting
it up on four wheels.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Hey, Denny
You know, I have struggled for many months now to understand how it is that you manage, with such frequency, to set some people off around here. I think I've finally gotten a handle on it.
It really isn't about your wanting to refine the breed somewhat, because we pretty much all make improvements. What if the cycle racers rode the same bikes they were on in the inaugural Tour de France? It's not that guys don't respect your opinion cause you've never completed a C/k, because you clearly posess the chops to produce a fine kart. What puts a burr under the collective saddle is that you pronounce sweeping judgments on the the basic formula without ever having seen, let alone
driven one of the things. Just one example is evident in your post above. Your regular refrain that cyclekarts are badly underpowered with even a hopped up 200cc eng. comes across as absurd to anyone with seat time in one. So, naturally they react in a couple of predictable ways. 1, The guy should drive one before he comments so authoritatively, or 2. The guy thinks he's such a stud, that what others describe as pretty adequate power couldn't possibly be enough to satisfy him!
When we simply dismiss the assessment of experienced people in an area, and I'm talking specifically about the operation of cyclekarts here, where we ourselves are inexperienced, the reaction should be
predictable. To constantly harp on what you see as the inadequacy of a basic formula that has given great enjoyment to it's practitioners, many of whom have extensive motorsport experience is alienating.
You're not the first to be chided for talking before you drive, so don't take it personally.
Do find a way to take a drive though, THEN give us your impressions.
NASCAR looks slow on TV too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-13 04:36 PM by CmdBentaxle.

carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
I don't know what you're saying, but feel free to read all the forum rules. http://www.cyclekartclub.com/phorum/read.php?1,3

topevo Avatar
topevo Juergen M
Versmold, NRW, Germany   DEU




The answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything is 42.

TheGIantTribble Avatar
Chelmsford, Essex, UK   GBR
Re the original post about the engine note.
I have a plan for my CK. And yes it's a bit bonkers!
When I built my life steam train I added a pair of resonance pipes, so instead of sounding like a miniature steam train, which is what it is, it actually chuffs like the real thing.
The only thing it lacks is volume.
I believe, nay hope, I can do similar with my GX200 engine, and using a sort of reversed manifold. It probably wont work, I'll probably burn me hand on the hot pipes.
But it'll be a bit of fun, and if it works I'll have a V8 sounding Maserati...albeit a bit quieter smiling smiley

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classical-gas Scot Laughlin
Bellingham, washington, USA   USA
When I was a teen, we used some of our paper route money to buy mini bike kits. No suspension except the fat (wheelbarrow) tires, drum brake on the rear only, and a some old slant cylinder four strokes with a reduction drive built in (washing machine engines?)

My dad got tired of the bark from lawnmower mufflers, so he made up a couple glasspacks, from copper pipe and reducers, some hardware cloth, and fiberglass insulation, and hooked them to the engine with a pipe fitting and some flex tube(like a Duesenberg)The bark turned into a rumble, and when they got good and warm, the oil they collected from the worn out engines would burn, and at idle they'd blow smoke rings.

You can definitely get a different sound out of an industrial engine. it just takes some out of the box thinking.

Notso-Chinsee Avatar
Notso-Chinsee Gold Member Albert Lies
Spokane Valley, Washington (WA), USA   USA
Thinking about Denny’s post on Can The Sounds? I thought I would make a new exhaust and do some testing. Well it’s late tonight to finish so this is to be continued.



Al Lies
The "Not-So Chinsee" guy

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Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Oh Al
Too much time on your hands????
Time to star on CK # 2
And double decker that trailer.
I had one of our B.C. Chapter members over today........which was truly a "CK DAY"
And showed him plans for the second story on the CK Trailer that I had my employee working on today, as I was painting my CK parts all day.
Love your new tie downs and can justify the price....as we counted 44 parts before the actual straps.
I think the price is well within reason!
Good Roads
Brian

Notso-Chinsee Avatar
Notso-Chinsee Gold Member Albert Lies
Spokane Valley, Washington (WA), USA   USA
This is only the sound no muffler or spark arrester. You choose which sound you like best.







Al Lies
The "Not-So Chinsee" guy

DoinItWrong Avatar
DoinItWrong Anthony Gurganious
Oak Harbor, Washington (WA), USA   USA
1929 CycleKart Italian "Fiat Gipsy"
I'm nowhere near as eloquent in my writing style as Dave is, and I'm nowhere near as skilled in the build arena as many of these guys are. But I feel like I was born about 70 years after I should have been, and I feel like had I been born back then, I'd have been building the kinds of cars we're now imitating.

I'd like to comment on your post Denny. I feel like I ride both sides of this fence, so if you don't mind, I'd like to add my view.

I understand the desire to go faster and for regulations and rules. Maybe even classes for higher performing cars. (Don't look so shocked Dave. I know hearing that from me was about the last person you ever thought you'd hear it from. Give me a moment to explain.) I even understand the thought that the 200cc engines seem like under-powered power plants. So, I get where you're coming from in thinking the way you do. Especially since your exposure to these things is through video and photo only. I watched the Campbell Cup video from a few years back when I was researching these during our first build, and I thought "Wow! These look slower than I thought they were, and the sound is monotonous."

But...I couldn't have been more wrong about all of it.

Denny, up until last year, I have built and driven race cars or bikes since I was 15. Actual racecars. Not gokarts. Not cyclekarts. Not things that imitate racecars. I started out racing 10,000rpm 4 cylinders on dirt. I moved my way up to Late Model V-8s that sounded like scalded hyenas when the throttle was open on paved courses. From there, I moved on to turbocharged anythings that ran autocross and road courses. And from that I moved into SportBike racing on tracks like Mugello in Italy. In each of these were rules and regulations. Stipulations and restrictions. Technicalities and, most of the time, huge expenses. Those expenses were driven by the need to ride the edge of the rules and to push the limits to try to find any advantage to be competitive. And ultimately, without sponsorship, I found that the sportsman was driven from the sport.

You've talked about classes and manufacturers and advancement of the sport several times over several posts. What you fail to realize is that many of us in the sport don't want this because of what we know it leads to: our own extinction from the sport we love. Plenty of other racing programs have advanced. And you, yourself mentioned that cyclekarts don't fit into one of those "categories" like gokarts or sprints or cyclecars, etc. But that's exactly the point. We don't want to fit.

You took offense to the idea that you don't really know what these are until you've built and driven one. You even talked about using an engine bigger than many road worthy motorcycles use in your cyclekart. What you fail to realize is that we are trying to recreate the spirit of the cars we imitate, not just their design. We try to embody the mindset of the men and women who pioneered the sport way back when. You scoffed at "purists" when they are everything to this hobby. I marvel at the ingenuity I see on these pages, and I love to get together with these guys and talk about each other's designs and builds and share whatever idiotic ideas Justin and I have mulled over.

The truth is, man, you really DON'T know what these things are until you've built and driven one. After driving the stuff I've driven at the speeds I've driven it, you'd never have convinced me that a 6.5hp engine could be this thrilling and fun until I was wheel to wheel with some of these guys at what felt like (and may have actually been) death-defying speeds. And NO car I've ever owned has brought me as much pride as the kart Justin and I built on a couple of saw horses with our own hands. And the things I love about this hobby? Your money doesn't matter. Your workshop doesn't matter. Your personal skills don't even really matter if you just jump in and ask for help when you need it.

You are welcome to your opinion on the hobby, just don't be offended when people rebuke the idea that it needs to advance. If anything, we're trying to get away from advancement. We aren't imitating modern cars. We're imitating stuff that was cobbled from left-over aircraft engines and jalopy car chassis. The original machines, while definitely art, were far from precision pieces of equipment. I have more fun in and turn more heads with our home-built deathtrap than I ever did with any of my production race vehicles. And to be frank, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I invite you to stop trying to perfect your build before you ever build it, and just build the thing. You can work later to make it better, but I'd like to venture a guess here and say that I think you'll understand better why we do the things we do, the way we do them, once you've been behind the wheel. And I'd even be willing to bet you that if you put it out there that you'd like to actually see one or drive one just to see what all the hubbub is about, you'd get plenty of invites for some wheeling and a few beers.

Hell, I'll start.

Denny, you have a seat and a beer waiting. All you have to do is get here.



El Diablo (Anthony Gurganious)
1/2 Owner
1/2 Builder
1/2 Driver
1929 Fiat Gipsy
Team Captain: Team Doin' It Wrong

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Well said Tony!thumbs up
You and Justin are an asset to the CycleKart world and an inspiration to those of us that have attended Tieton the last two years, to see what can be learned and accomplished while still enjoying the friendships we make while we are there.
And once again, a personal Thanks for letting me take the Gypsy for a spin at this years event.
I hope Denny takes your comments in the context that you have presented them, and is able to take you up on your offer.
Good Roads
Woody
PS
I hope you were able to sample our "Canadian Margaritas"

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
So as not to lose the reason for this thread, I would like to comment on Al's two "sounds".
I sort of like the single pipe sound best.
Double pipe sounded "Tinnie" to me???
Woody

JTremain Avatar
JTremain Justin Tremain
Oak HArbor, Washington, USA   USA
I think I like the two pipe set up. After reving the single pipe, it sounds kinda hallow or something to me.

Plus it looks awesome! I give it a thumbs up



"Magic Man"
"Cole Trickle"
"NightHawk"
Team Doin It Wrong

1927 Nash Modified: Legion Special

1929 Fiat Gypsy
"The terror of Tieton"
"The 1965 911 of cyclekarts"

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