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Engine installation

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lqbanotxano Ivan Martinez
Sugar Land, Texas, USA   USA
Well I wanted the engine in front of the axle. I got it but....it caused many unforeseen problems.
1. Had to drill new mounting holes in ATV.
2. Had to weld a nut in the engine mount...only way to screw one of the engine attach bolts.
3. Had to grind part of one of the ATV gussets.
4. Have to loosen & tighten the chain by moving the axle not the engine. Got about 1/2-5/8" play.
I hope this is enough movement....don't want to use an idler gear chain tensioner.
5. Used many gussets to stiffen the motor mount.
6. Will be adding a third pillow block bearing near the middle.....is this common?
7. Note on pictures 3 & 4 the screw to move axle bearing to tighten chain....also to align axle to front suspension.

SEE PICTURES ATTACHED

Ivan in Texas

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carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Ivan, I hate to say this but there is so much flex in your set up that you'll never keep a chain on. You might be able to get rid of some of the flex with two bars under the engine.

My first set up had the engine on a pedestal which didn't work very well at all and I ended up making a mounting plate.

fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
Im not knocking your Kart,but as a Senior Kart builder and safety minded,this Kart is unsafe!!!The frame is too weak,the Mounts are too weak,the axle will tear loose,I dont know about the welds,cant really see them.The guys who know me and trust what im saying will agree.Ive repaired many Karts at Tieton and trust what im saying when its weak!!Dennis,Brian and many others inspect Karts,we all look after each other.Trust me when I say dont continue on this path,Build a new stronger frame!!! Your talking to a 40yr Master Tech with college welding skills,proven to my cyclekart friends ,start over.The vibration will break stuff right away and could cause a bad accident,these are not toys.Titeton has broken even the best of karts last year,even I have had problems.It really sucks when you spend so much time building to find out you didnt do it right or its not safe.Take a look at my build pics,Chitty,this kart had chain issues,belt issuse and steering issues.it is built like a freight train which holds my fat ass.Im #300lbs,yea im not skinny by any means,just take a look at what I had to do to make it work,my motor had flex issues when I first built it.It took me many hours to take care of it

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Ivan, If that is the complete engine mount stucture, I'm afraid those long unsupported beams will twist with the tourque, sag with the weight, and if the chain stays on long enough will ultimately fail at the welds. I wouldn't say you have to start over completely, but the entire engine mount area will need to be much more ridged. If I were to inherit that project, the first thing I would do is replace that drilled anlge iron with 1x2 .062 steel rectangular tube, with a truss support from above at the mount. A wide car like that means either big heavy crossmembers or a truss with diagonals.

Dave

fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
I understand he wants to keep it light,but ive seen similar built karts running Tieton BREAK!! I fixed several last year that had failed in many areas including factory built spindles that broke off.These Karts have to be built like Tanks to survive,angle iron,flimsy holed angle iron just dont survive the abuse.If he is building it to just put around then do what you have to do to strengthen the motor mount.At Tieton we run on abusive gravel roads,orchard roads,and streets at full bore,there is no place for error or you could get hurt.Mine developed a death wobble during the second day last year so I sat out till I could fix the problem,it almost put me into the ditch!! During the town races there are people standing on or near the road and if anyone got hurt our racing days are over.We just want to stay safe and avoid any possible wrecks before they happen not to mention we just dont want anyone hurt


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lqbanotxano Ivan Martinez
Sugar Land, Texas, USA   USA
Thanks for the replies guys.

The whole cart frame including front suspension, motor mount etc...is just tacked together. My final welds will look like your picture. The main frame is built from heavy wall 1x1 tubing. The angle that the pillow blocks sit on is 1 1/4×1 1/4×1/16...the pillow blocks sit on 1x1/8 flat bar pads. The motor mount is built from 1/8 x 1x1 angle. The angle that the pillow block & motor mount cross angle sit on is a truss (not finished, missing angled support pieces) Motor mount missing a couple of gussets. I will finish all above & take other pictures without the engine.
All critique is wellcome!

Ivan from Texas

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Ivan
I don't recall your saying you wanted to run your kart at Tieton, or any such race, or just as a cruise around kart.
I'll reserve my opinion till you have the rest of your structure in place, but just as a note, most guys usinig 1/4" steel
plate even have flex problems with their mount if not braced really well.
Keep the updates coming.

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fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
Im just trying to help you understand how much stress is put on those parts and what problems we have encountered over the years,Im also trying to help you not have issues down the road when it all comes together during your final assembly then find out you have to take it all apart again to fix it.Most of it depends upon how your going to use it,putting around you can get away with your set up and strengthen the areas needed.Racing on the other hand with make stuff break real quick and you will have to change your set up a whole lot to keep from breaking.Im more than happy to help you out where I can with imput,im sure you sat down and watched some build videos that Dennis,steve & a few others have made.I look at my mail daily,so dont be a stranger.I could have used help with simple questions like where to get parts,how to do certain things to work better or maybe where to find parts.I struggled for 6 months day and night building mine,still not done after 3 yrs.I had 5 yrs of KT100 kart racing before doing this project along with wood working skills building models,houses,furniture just to name a couple.So let me know how your going to use it and I will try to help you in the right direction to get things sorted out

lqbanotxano Ivan Martinez
Sugar Land, Texas, USA   USA
I was trying to make the engine & mount retrofitable to a differential. Tonight, I tried reclocking the torque converter...that did not work. What I have is just not workable.
I am going to redo from the seatback back (not the bottom 1x1 tubing.
Will get rid of the 1-1/4×1-1/4×1/16 angle. It is a very soft steel & too flexible.

Are the pillow blocks a source of concern for failure (not the structure they sit on)?

Ivan from Texas

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fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
The metal with the holes is way to weak,it will tear out and break at one set of holes along that area.These karts have a lot of stress areas,motor mounts,front suspension,seat area where you sit.twisting alone will show signs of cracking within a couple hours of use.The 1x2 frame will hold up to just putting around,but if you plan to put the coals to it dont expect it to last long,you might have well made it with tooth picks.Have you looked at what I built??How is was built?? you dont have to follow what I did but it might give you an idea of how strong it needs to be to quit bending.My mount still flexed after I did this,I added more support later in the build when I tried driving it.Had to pull the whole rearend down to fix it.I have the diff that Northern tool sells in my kart,needs center support on both sides of the diff to keep the bushings from wearing out.I had issues with chain alignment too,then had to install a brake,that wasnt fun and I think I will change to a hydrolic one in a year or so(didnt stop fast enough for me) I have the cheap set up.So what kind of use do you have planned??

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Good call on ditching the angle. Soft, as you've said, and heavy. Poor torsional rigidity even without the lighting holes. Pillow blocks have been used successfully, but most are cast, which means if they do fail they won't deform as a warning, They'll just go. And if one does, the other will in sequence most likely. I do want to applaud your intention of keeping it light, Ivan.
We could of course, build them to withstand nearly anything. But an overly heavy machine has it's own issues. Running the same tires and powered by the same mill, a substantially weightier kart will overburden it's systems, uphill, downhill, starting, and stopping. It is my experience that a structure of marginal strength can be strengthend more easily than a structure of excess weight can be lightened. A vehicle expected to perform should be given a measured approach to structural re-enforcement.
My kart weighs 265 lbs. Would I like it a little lighter? Sure, but not a whole lot. I'm not willing to sacrifice the strength. It is, if I've done my job, as strong as it needs to be. Plus just a wee bit.

lqbanotxano Ivan Martinez
Sugar Land, Texas, USA   USA
Starting over.....

Today, I went to the steel yard & picked up some 1×3×1/16 tubing. (4) 8 footers & (1) 4 footer for $49.00.
Redoing the lower chassis with 1X3 & the motor mount with 1X3 also, now using a differential.

Not a total waste.... learned to weld (and grind off welds) Used the old frame to layout the new. Got it drawn up ready to start again.

Ivan from Texas

fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
You wont be sorry ivan,we are trying to keep you safe.We have seen what works and what dont,LOLI think you will be much happier with the outcome,just take your time and only tack things into place first.May have to go back and change a few things later when it doesnt quite work or it needs to be moved a 1/4",you know what im talking about.If there is anything you need to ask feel free to do so,we want to help anyone who wants to build one.Where to find parts,how to take your motor apart or anything else or even a pep talk,LOL to keep you going.

lqbanotxano Ivan Martinez
Sugar Land, Texas, USA   USA
Started my new frame this afternoon. It's tacked only....mitered corners, straight, square and no racking. Attached is a picture. Also a picture of one of my tacks....just so it can be seen that I am not just "squirting metal"
The bad frame was actually a lot of help in letting me mock-up the engine & differential. Will be getting my Argon mix bottle next week...no more hammering, scraping, black beads & powder everywhere.

Ivan in Texas


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fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
Lookin good Ivan,Hollar at me if you need any verbal help

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