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Differential rear axle

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tecnisur3 Avatar
tecnisur3 Guillermo Paterno
Lanus, buenos aire, Argentina   ARG
Hola amigos como solucionar el problema del diferencial trasero al doblar una rueda arrastra y pierde potencia,
(tengo un eje trasero con dos ruedas fija al eje)


ingles

Hello friends how to solve the problem of the rear differential when folding a wheel drags and loses power,
I have a rear axle with two wheels fixed to the axle

Gracias a todos

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Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
What kind of Dif are you using?
Brian

tecnisur3 Avatar
tecnisur3 Guillermo Paterno
Lanus, buenos aire, Argentina   ARG
Without solid differential axle with two fixed wheels

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SteveV Avatar
SteveV Steve Vinson
Phoenix, Arizona, USA   USA
1924 Ford Model T "Viscount Vinson Special"
1927 CycleKart American "Mono Wasp"
I know that the Vintage Kart Co uses the Peerless differential. They are using 4 bearings, two on each side of the differential to keep the axles from flexing.

One bearing mounted close to the wheel, the other mounted closer to the differential.



Steve Vinson
Arizona CycleKart Club

Design-Build-Race-Repeat

SteveV Avatar
SteveV Steve Vinson
Phoenix, Arizona, USA   USA
1924 Ford Model T "Viscount Vinson Special"
1927 CycleKart American "Mono Wasp"
Dennis Thomas has a good video covering the installation of the differential in a cyclekart in his new video series for the Studebaker hot rod pickup on Youtube.






Steve Vinson
Arizona CycleKart Club

Design-Build-Race-Repeat

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hello Guys,

I know this is a bit controversial, but I will retry to with a homemade differential ! I had made a similar model for the "13" but too small and too "weak"....
Here are the first pictures, if the operation is correct I would place a post with plans, photo and explanations of assembly


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chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
I don't see it as controversial at all Fabrice, it's all a balance between extra weight, complexity, grip, and braking. I'm fascinated by your builds, you're doing the hard work, I'll probably follow you and build one of your diffs when I build a 4 wheel kart.

One of the model boats I manufacture has a choice of 2 hulls, 4 rigs, they all have different characters, but overall the performance is much the same.

Chris

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Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
My feelings are about the same as Chris. I've been following your effort to
build a spur gear differential all along Fabrice. The snag came in for me
when I tried to source the spur gears. Here in the States the cost
was simply much to high plus choosing the correct size for the torque
involved proved to be something reserved for an engineer.

My interest in a differential for a Cyclekart is purely experimental.
That is the reason I have a Peerless 100 series differential and a
Pro-Gear locking differential on the shelf waiting for a kart to
put them in. The problem with both is the added weight.
Compared to a solid 1 inch axle 8 lbs, the Peerless is
about 10 lbs which isn't to bad till you add the additional
bearings and support and the Pro-Gear is around 33 lbs.
The question that most often comes to mind is.....is a differential
really necessary in a Cyclekart. On the pavement a single wheel
drive is adequate for a 6.5 hp motor and off road it's simple
enough to install a locking key in the free wheel creating a live axle.
Refinements like differential rear axles and four wheel braking
I think may be best left till the day that Cyclekarts racing truly
becomes a competitive sport.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-18 07:50 AM by Denny Graham.

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hello Guys,

If I try this experience, it is for 2 main reasons
- The price of the right gear is very cheap
- The traction and the brake on a single wheel is "relatively" difficult with a rigid chassis.
In France we have small tracks, and in the "bad" turns, no brake and no traction......OK, our CK may also be a little heavier ....
My Bugatti 13 weighs 140kg to empty ....

Soon
Fabrice

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1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, Florida, USA   USA
1900 Ford Model 01 "Quadricycle"
1908 Harley-Davidson Pre-War
1965 AC Cobra
I understand the need for a differential, but I don't understand why you would want to use spur gears. It looks way to complicated. Henry Ford had a differential on his Quadricycle 1" rear axle. The left side gear is pinned to the axle, the sprocket is allowed to rotate on the axle and has two bevel pinions inside of it, and the right side gear is pinned to the right wheel. I built this one for my replica. Something similar could be built for a kart, the only down side being the weight. Those steel gears are a little heavy.


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Quad differential.jpg

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hello Rick

Three other reasons !

- With right sprockets + - 30 €, With conical sprockets +- 120€......winking smiley
- This differential is limited slip !! And not the differential with bevel gears ...Not completely "Torsen" but approaching
- I could place the brake disc in the middle and had two wheels braked ...

Soon
Fabrice

PS : Your construction is very interesting ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-18 09:20 AM by Little French.

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
As I posted last year when we were discussing this subject Fabric, here
in the states the cost of that set of gears was WAY more than 30 € ($35 US).
I'm really a fan of the "Torsen" differential, but there is no way to make that
yourself and no one is making or using one that is small enough for our
application.
To that end, you are on the right track and very close to duplicating the
action of a "Torsen" diff.

Since you're new here Rick, you may not have seen the discussion we had
last year. This is a very good explanation of the limited slip Torsen principle.


No clutches to worry about but constant balanced power applied to both
wheels in a turn or on a slippery surface.

dg

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
The Snapper rear engine riding mowers use a spur gear differential. I have disassembled one I have, and have attached a couple of pictures. (I also have an additional one for parts, and may try to pick up more parts at small engine shops in our community.)
As you can see, in its stock configuration it uses 2 sets of spur gears, but the plate on one side is already set up for 4 sets. (And there IS room for them - I have already tried it.) This spur gear design has the advantage of allowing one axle to ride on bushings inside the other axle, which is a larger, hollow axle. This means that the differential does not need to be supported by additional bearings on either side of the gear set. These mowers come with engines in the range of 8 HP up to 12, so I think it should be strong enough to handle the 6 1/2 HP engines, especially with the additional spur gear sets. I plan to use the smaller plate from a second unit to substitute for the large (and heavy) gear. I don't have a scale I can use at my shop, so I don't know the resulting weight after this modification. I have some stuff like this to work with, and not a lot of the green stuff to work with, so I plan to use what I have.
(I hope I'm doing the attach photo routine correctly - haven't attempted it before.)


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Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hello Ernest,

It is something very similar to the first differentials !


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Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
In reply to # 25407 by Little French Hello Ernest,

It is something very similar to the first differentials !

Hi Fabrice,

I don't think I have ever seen one of that design. I took a Model T Ford differential apart when I was a teenager, but I don't remember how it was designed.

So the gear that is off-center is attached to a shaft that passes through the main gear, and thus drives the gear with the chain on the opposite side - Is that correct? I suppose that would not work well at higher speeds, because of the imbalance weight wise.

But I had never seen a spur gear differential, either, until I took this one from the Snapper mower apart. (I had seen photos, but not the actual device. I usually have to see something like this functioning before I can fully understand how it works.)

Edited 07-19-2017 changed 'never' to 'ever' (I had originally written "I have never seen...."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-19 05:50 AM by Neto.

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