CKC

Custom Karts Forum

Differential rear axle

AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hi Denny,

No, without axles ! It would be too good !! sad smiley
But I will compensate this weight with Alu support bearings, and I remove the hubs of the large sprocket (crown) and disc..... winking smiley

Fabrice

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
Thanks Fabrice. That seemed quite light weight. But you are still right
around the same weight as the Peerless 100 series differential and
they are not a locking type.
Please keep us updated on the performance when you get it installed.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hi Denny,

Of course, as soon as it is installed, I will give the plans and all the information ...

Fabrice

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
In reply to # 25590 by Little French Hi,

Some news !

Still some finishing before the tests...

Some Feature :
- Length : 185mm
- Diameter : 120mm
- Weight : 4.300kg
- Axles : 30mm
- Sprockets :
2x 27 teeth module 2
12x 12 teeth module 2

Fabrice
Looking at the last picture (ending # 434), I am curious how you have set up the part where the shaft comes out of the sleeves on each side. Do you have bushings there, or how do you hold the oil from passing through? Will there be oil seals on the outside?

Also, are the spur gears and the shafts they ride on one piece, or do they able rotate both on the shaft, as well as the shaft rotating in the side flanges? (On the differential I have from the Snapper mower, the spur gears rotate on hollow shafts with a larger diameter part at one end, to keep the gears in their proper places, side to side. The bolts which pass through these hollow shafts also hold the two end plates together, The hollow shafts do not rotate - they also serve as the spacers for the two end plates.)

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
Looking forward to that Fabrice. I'm keeping an album for this project
and following it with interest. I'd really like to see developed, a
locking differential that was simple, light and inexpensive. I can't help
but think that it would be very beneficial in an off road application.
Every time I mow on a hill or in wet grass with my hydro-static
lawn tractor, I wish it had a locking differential and I imagine that a
Cyclekart would benefit in the same way.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hi Ernest,

I will try to explain !
- I will make a hole with stopper for oil (not yet visible on the picture)
- The 30mm axles are not fixed in the differential box, But only entered, then I would place anti-return rings on the axle
- The small gears are fixed on their axes by pins, These axes are smaller at the ends to enter the bronze rings (see the pictures)
- There are 3 spacers to assemble the sides of the box (You can see the tapped holes in the photo)
- There are O-rings on the gearbox and on the axle starter sleeves

I put here a part of plan
Fabrice


Attachments:
Plan partiel du diff.JPG    20.8 KB
Plan partiel du diff.JPG

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
In reply to # 25608 by Little French Hi Ernest,

I will try to explain !
- I will make a hole with stopper for oil (not yet visible on the picture)
- The 30mm axles are not fixed in the differential box, But only entered, then I would place anti-return rings on the axle
- The small gears are fixed on their axes by pins, These axes are smaller at the ends to enter the bronze rings (see the pictures)
- There are 3 spacers to assemble the sides of the box (You can see the tapped holes in the photo)
- There are O-rings on the gearbox and on the axle starter sleeves

I put here a part of plan
Fabrice

Thank you for the diagram. I think I understand now. Your small (spur) gears are 12 tooth gears. Is M2 the pitch of the teeth? (If I understand this terminology correctly, the pitch is the spacing of the teeth, or distance between the crown of one tooth or cog to the next. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.)

How much of the length of each small gear is in contact with its counterpart small gear next to it? (The ones I have here only have a contact area of 7mm, and I'm wondering if this is enough. These gears are 30mm in diameter, and 17mm in length, with 12 teeth. I did not measure the gears on the axle ends, or count their teeth. But on co\lose inspection, I am seeing quite a bit of wear on some of the gears, and am planning to get some more from a small engine shop to compare. But those are also used, of course. They have a couple of these Snapper mowers on their scrap pile, and I hope to be able to just trade some parts for an equal weight in metal scrap I have. I have to keep my budget on this project as low as possible.)

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hi Ernest,

A small picture of the used gears and their dimensions ! Perhaps the definition of the Module is different with you with your decimal system ....
You will find in this table the sprockets 12 and 27 teeth that I used


Attachments:
Engrenages.JPG    67 KB
Engrenages.JPG

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
I cannot follow all of the naming methods in the chart, but the measurement they mark as 'h' in the diagram for the gears I have coincides with module 1.5, and the measurement they label as 'De' is 30mm. (These gears that I have are possibly described by their manufacturer in imperial measurements, that is, inches, but I measured them myself in metric in order to compare to what you are using.)

What I meant by the 'contact area' is the meshing area, the part of the small gear's 'h' dimension that contacts the large gear. But it looks like you have two separate small gears for each position or rod, each pinned to its axis so as to function as a single, longer gear. In my set up here, each gear rotates on its axis, which is fixed, and rides half way on the large gear, and half way on the other small gear in its set, or pair, which in turn rides half way on the other axle's large gear. So if I am understanding your design correctly, and you are using gears from module 1, then the small gears are meshing with the large (axle) gears along their entire width, or 'h' measurement, which is twice as much contact area as the system I have.

(If I am not making sense, you do not need to continue answering. You have been very patient, and I do not want to be a nuisance.)
Thank you.
Ernest ('Neto')

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
In fact, Here is the most explicit photo I know
This concept is exactly like my project, with two small differences
- In the picture you can see 4 satellites, on mine I have 6 satellites (little sprokets 12 Teeths)
- I used 2 sprockets to make a single longer, because I did not find better, or with a custom manufacture very expensive ....

Operating animation


Fabrice


Attachments:
1436221267.jpg    38.8 KB
1436221267.jpg

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Wow!
You guys are definitely great machinists.
I thought I was going further than most by purchasing a Diff from Northern Tool for $119.00.
Keep up the Great Work!
Woody

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
In reply to # 25648 by Little French In fact, Here is the most explicit photo I know
This concept is exactly like my project, with two small differences
- In the picture you can see 4 satellites, on mine I have 6 satellites (little sprockets 12 Teeth)
- I used 2 sprockets to make a single longer, because I did not find better, or with a custom manufacture very expensive ....

Operating animation


Fabrice

I had seen the 2nd drawing or representation some place before, but not the video. The one I have here is set up like the one in the video, with each gear half on the axle gear, and half on the other small gear. (Except that this one is enclosed in a non-rotating case. I had thought of making a case much like you did, but I do not have a metal lathe, and have to limit expenses on this project.) Like the one in the video, mine has 4 small gears, or 2 pairs. But the one side plate already has holes for 2 more pairs, or, a total of 8 small gears (8 satellites as you referred to them). I am thinking that since this system has less contact area between each gear, that I will add in the other pairs. I had hoped to go to the small engine shop this morning, but I had too much paper work (invoices, bills, etc) to do for my business, so I had to give it up. Also, our dish washer started leaking last night, so now I have to try to fix that yet. And we have company coming on Monday - people we knew in Brazil, but who now live in Thailand. Thank you for the response!

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, Illinois, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
Only difference Woody is Fabice's differential is a "Limited Slip" spur gear differential.
I'm not aware of anyone that's making one commercially sized for a cyclekart.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how it works out.
I'm,sure Charles could add a lot to this subject, with all the background
he has in the gear industry. But.....he's probably to busy getting his new
abode ready for winter to join in a lengthy discussion.
dg

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hi Denny, Hi Ernest

I have already made a similar thing in the past ! It worked very well, but the concept was a bit simple and the parts used, too fragile.
Axis too small, gears smaller and simply screwed on the axes
And I made a mistake, I placed the crown in the middle, and because of this, the spacers too long and too thin had difficult to bear the efforts ...
I used with the "13" for a few months, but it was necessary to constantly tighten the screws, so I deleted it ...But the concept is okay !!



I think the model I'm building now will be stronger, and I would not have these problems any more ...
I wait for the last O-rings, and there are some parts to make (oil plug and overflow, some grooves for lubrication) and I make a video with the complete assembly ...

Soon,
Fabrice



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-30 12:50 AM by Little French.

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hello Guys,

The N ° 2 version more solid, I hope !!
Coming soon, installation on the chassis, and I will give you more news soon....


. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions

Members Sign In   or   Create an Account

Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster





Join The Club

Sign in to ask questions, share photos, and access all website features

Your Karts

1933 CycleKart Italian

Text Size

Larger Smaller
Reset Save

Sponsor Links