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Alternate power units but keeping in the CK spirit

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bobzdar Peter Terrana
Mechanicsville, VA, USA   USA
I've been throwing around ideas for my cyclekart for a couple of years now and one thing has always bogged me down a bit - these cars are art-like in execution with most everything...except for the engine. There's good reason for that, I know, but I have always been attracted to less common and more 'exotic' engines in vehicles (like v4 motorcycles, flat plane 8's, v12's and v16's, BRM H-16 etc.), so I've been thinking about how to bring that to a cyclekart build without making deviating too far from the formula. What that's led me to is one of two paths: an electric drivetrain, which seems wrongly modern, or a multi cylindered unit made up of small single cylinder motors. This led me to the Honda GXH50 49cc 4 stroke 2hp engine. It's compact, light, industrial in nature and fairly cheap used and revs to 7500rpm (peak power at 7000rpm). I'm thinking of trying to put 4 of these together for around 7-8hp (after losses in connecting them), which would put it on-par with a normal gx200 in both displacement and power, but in a much more interesting and fun package. Attached is a (very) rough drawing - a chain driven main 'crank' that delivers the power with 4 sprockets to take input from each motor in either an inline or V(H?) format. You'd have to clock each motor properly for even firing, but that should be fairly simple and sound wicked at 7000rpm. H setup is a lot more compact but inline is much easier for exhaust and throttle linkage. Any thoughts? Good idea? Stupid complicated and expensive? Against the spirit?

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CKengine.jpg

LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, Arizona, USA   USA
I don't know if it is a good idea or a bad idea but I find it very interesting. Good Luck if you decide to pursue the concept.

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Silver Member Dave D
Federal Way, Washington, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Interesting idea. Not too expensive if you dig up the engines cheap. Complicated? I suspect chain lash may play havoc with timing, with destructive results. Transmission?? In the spirit? I think that if the performance was on par, nobody would beef about it.

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gearguy Charles Schultz
Oil City, Pennsylvania, USA   USA
Why not just go to E-Bay & buy a pitbike motor with a built in transmission & reverse gear? Same HP as a HF clone but for less than $400 you skip a great deal of hassle. I bought a HF clone, TAV, & F-N-R gearbox before I learned there was another way. Once I complete that kart in 2018 my next kart will go the pitbike & transmission route. This is not about going faster for me, just improved driveability in local conditions. My goal is to eventually get a local meet started with a hill climb, street race, autocross, & con cours here in the Valley that changed the world.

MalibuMan Cas Tuyn
Weert, Limburg, Netherlands   NLD
4 cilinder cyclekart makes me think of the Fiat S76 of 1911, the 'Beast of Turin' which is also a 4 cilinder.
See for inspiration.

I would put the 4 engines inline. A normal 4-inline shares the crank, so you can put a pulley on each Honda crank and drive a long common crank with 4 pulleys. This even gives you the possibility to gear up or down the speed of the common crank. For smooth running you must time each Honda to fire in the order a normal 4-inline fires.

You may want to look at drag-race and tractor-pulling for inspiration how they handle multiple standalone engines into 1 output drive.

Woodysrods Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Sounds like you like to think outside of the box, and have no real tie to the "KISS" theory of building a CycleKart.
But, this is not a bad thing!
They can't all be the same.....as that would be boring!
I personally would like to hear the sound that this might produce.
And with those RPMs????.......You may have stumbled to something????
Good Roads
Woody

bobzdar Peter Terrana
Mechanicsville, VA, USA   USA
My thought was to use timing chains for the tie to the common 'crank' as they're built for that sort of thing and should have no problem with the rpms involved. If I use a set of crank/cam pullies it'll also give a 2:1 reduction leaving the output speed around the same as a gx200, so the standard CK clutch/transmission will work the same as with a traditional engine.

I'll see if I can scrounge up one or two of the gxh50s for cheap to play with and go from there. I'll build the engine first and then build the kart around it if it works out. I was thinking an alfa 8c but maybe the beast of Turin is more fitting!

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Rhysn Rhys N
New Zealand   NZL
My 2 cents, you are in the Custom Karts section, anything goes.

DavidMGA1600 Avatar
DavidMGA1600 Silver Member David Lake
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia   AUS
1935 CycleKart Great Britain
1960 MG MGA "Dads Car"
1961 CycleKart Race Car "Team Ferrari"
For my build I used a Honda CT110 motorbike engine. It's 105cc, four speed, clutchless gear change, compact and cheap. This is the engine out of the bike most of the wheels we all use come from.



David

1960 MGA 1600 Convertible,
Gold Coast, Australia.

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IMG_0427.JPG

TheGIantTribble Avatar
Chelmsford, Essex, UK   GBR
There is something wonderfully bonkers about this, and I applauded you.

I just can't help but wonder what 6 of them in line (or better yet 12 in a V) could sound like.
Re an actual CK, the revs would probably make it more suitable for the Alfa, the Beat of Turin is very low revs. Just a thought.

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
When I was a kid (mid 1960's), my Sunday School teacher's brother-in-law had a dragster with two 283 Chevy's in line. I never saw it on the strip, but just on the trailer, at my teacher's Dad's farm. I think coordinating the timing is always the biggest challenge with something like this.

LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, Arizona, USA   USA
Back in 1960, GMC Trucks designed its own unique V12 engine, comprised of two 351 ci V6 GMC engines united by a single block and crankshaft. Aside from that, most of the innards were comprised of the main parts from the V6 engines, which also appeared that year in light-duty and heavy-duty trucks. GMC even used the 351 ci V6 to help design the V12.
Marketed as the “Twin Six” V12, the mighty V12 was produced through to 1965 in the heavy-duty truck line, with a 702 ci (two 351s) capacity that produced 275 hp and a mighty 630 lb-ft of torque from 1,600 rpm to 1,900 rpm. A narrow power band, sure. But it acted more like a rumbling diesel engine than a screaming engine from Italy


Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/06/remember-when-gmc-produced-a-v12-engine/#ixzz4tL0VTeyv

Bananas Foster Jake Yuenger
Colorado Springs, COLORADO (CO), USA   USA
. Immediately made me remember this, it's a hugely multipart series 20+ videos, but here's one in operation. It cam be done ...... and just listen to that puppy

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, Ohio, USA   USA
In reply to # 26560 by Bananas Foster . Immediately made me remember this, it's a hugely multipart series 20+ videos, but here's one in operation. It cam be done ...... and just listen to that puppy

I watched the video, and then another of theirs. But like some of the commenters said, it would have been nice to see the crank. And what was it connected to? (The belt going down under the mounting surface. A generator?)

Bananas Foster Jake Yuenger
Colorado Springs, COLORADO (CO), USA   USA
I believe that's correct. Possibly only to recharge the battery/ loading the engine. I haven't studied the videos yet, just saw your post and figured I'd pass it on

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