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Goose neck drag link?

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Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
There are times.......when I run out of ideas. Seems to be happening a lot more as I get older
and the past couple of weeks, I dun runned out of them!
A few of you may be aware that I'm not using go kart style or rack & pinion steering on the Riley.
I'm using a Ross Gear very similar to that used in many cars up to the late 40's. The pitman shaft
exits on the right side of the frame with the pitman arm has to be quite long to get the quick steering
input that I'm looking for.
The long pitman arm puts the drag link hiem on a lower plane to the steering arm. Ideally the drag
link would run parallel to the frame rail but the only way to do that would be to put an 'offset' in the link.
This doesn't work with a heim joint at each end, which requires a straight push/pull. An offset drag link
would be flopping all over the place. In hind sight, I would have located the steering arm on the bottom
leg of the steering knuckle, which would have put it in straight alignment to the frame rail. But changing
that now would pretty much means scrapping the steering knuckle and starting over.
So the question to all you budding backyard engineers is.....can anyone see a solution to this?
Other then suggesting I scrap the whole idea, go to Go Power Sports and buy a R&P????
dg
P.S. The original car did have an offset drag link but used different type rod ends typical of the time period.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-16 06:04 AM by Denny Graham.

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smallboregarage Avatar
smallboregarage Chuck Kraeuter
Portland, OR, USA   USA
I'm not sure if this helps. This is a photo I took of Joey's kart at our local club meeting.


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Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Thanks Chuck. Yes, I've kept a file folder on Joey's Desoto because I found his front engine
approach very interesting. He obviously needed clearance for the tire in a left hand turn.
I don't see how that can possibly work as the link can flop back and forth till it binds on the
edge of the heim joint. Will it work??? Sure. Will it work properly I don't believe so because
of the lever arm created by the bend.

I'm thinking more and more of just modifying the steering knuckle and moving the arm down
to the bottom as it should have been in the first place. Ya just can't think of everything and
as I've admitted many times before, I taint no good as a designer, but give me a print and..........
Denny G
Sandwich, IL
Oh....and my spline came in early, so I can make up the pitman shaft today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-16 09:04 AM by Denny Graham.

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Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Denny
I the picture you posted of the original Riley, what do you suppose the triangulated rod with the clevis on the front end
running back to the frame is?
It looks far too light to be the "RadiusRod"??
And I did not realize that the Riley had the quarter ecliptics mounted solid to the front axle and rear end housing
with a frame mounted shackle to eliminate caster change while on rough terrain.
Brian

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Those rod end balls have very limited motion. A small o.d. washer under the ball will offset it enough not to bind. You have to do the same thing with Asusa tie rod ends or they'll bind on the spindle arm. Done properly, the rod can rotate a little without binding.

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Mechanical brakes Brian, that's a brake link for the right side. springs are pretty much conventional setup.
Pivot at the front, shackle at the rear and axle's bolted solid to the springs.

I'm not sure yet how much swing I'm going to need Dave. But what ever it is, it's not going to bind up.
The rod ends wiil be free without hitting a stop. Thought I'd have the pitman shaft and arm all made
up today but my 10" Logan lathe from the late 40's developed a bind in the carriage so I'll be spending
the next day or so as a machinery repairman.
dg

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Not much happening around here today. Spent most of the day putting the lathe
back together.
But I did dummy up a drag link with a bunch of bends in it just to see what kind of
gyrations it was gonna make.
Looks like it might work as long as I keep it parallel to the frame/ground.
dg


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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
That light link is a reaction rod on the brakes to resist the axle wind up when you put the brakes on. Several of the vintage cars racing have them, and many are cables.

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Ah ha, thanks for clearing that up Rhys. That makes more sense since there is a hydraulic
brake line clearly showing in that photo. I forget sometimes that this is not an original car
from the 20's, but one created much later using a vintage chassis and engine.
Denny G
Sandwich, IL

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
Nice touch over the top of the centre bolt in your spring Denny.

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
After noon Rhys. Just got in from our morning constitutional, me and the mutt that is, cranked
up the heat in the barn, only 5°F with -10° wind chill this morning. Gonna have to feed the Pig,
(barrel stove) to supplement the gas furnace today, it won't keep up with this kind of cold.
Spent the whole day, (04:00am to about 5:00pm) clearing snow so yesterday was a bust
as far as work in the shop.
The 5/16 center bolt is threaded into the clamp and is stubbed off at the bottom to go thru
the pilot holes in the spring and spring pad on the axle. I may end up reducing the area of
the clamp as it is rather large and out of proportion for it's intended purpose. It flattens out
that section of the spring, acting to reduce the length which stiffens up the spring quite a bit.
Even though it will change the wheel base a little, the nice thing about the GN style 1/4 elliptical
spring is it's easy to change the spring rate by adding or subtracting a few inches to it's length.
Not so easy with half elliptical springs unless you relocate the rear mounting point. That length
is a large factor in the formula. A 24" leaf spring has a 50lb rate and cutting it in half increases
it 8 times to 400lb. The was the mistake I made when I made my springs. I figured it as a 24"
lever arm when it should have been 1/2 that. So.......I'm a bit stiff up front....Live and learn!!!!!
Where you off to this year? Somewhere close to the equator till it warms up some??
DG

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
Easy way to change the 1/4 elliptic spring rate is to move the U bolt, that's what the race guys do.

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Jus comin' in for a warm up, dang it's cold out tar in the barn!!!!
That''s what I mean, taint that easy to make adjustments with a half ellips.
Originally I had planned on using the GN Gnome special, which of course
had the typical GN type 1/4 ellipticals, but never got enough info on the car
to satisfy me, so......here I am over there in the Riley stable.
Tons of stuff about the Riley Brooklands and the specials if you're intention
is to include as much original detail as is practical.
That's like the Austin's, if you can't replicate an Austin special, then you
orta throw in the towel and switch to golf as a hobby!!!
Denny G

Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Be nice to the Austin guys Denny.
What makes them appear to be "easy" for CycleKart replication, is their size and simplicity!
They lent themselves very well to CycleKarts, as they almost were CycleCars.
Much like Model T made such great Speedsters and Racers!smiling bouncing smiley
Brian
PS
Nice to see you and Rhys getting along....we will have to get him in the Chat Room for some
inspirational conversation!smileys with beer

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Oh I'm all for the Austin's Brian. In fact somewhere down the road, if I live long enough, I just
may take a crack at the nice red no.77 that keeps popping up all over the place.

And yes....maybe I learned what I should and what I shouldn't bring up on the forum. We're
really not that much different, other than I'm kind of thin skinned at times and talk before thinking.
dg

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