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Locking collar placement on a Peerless installation...

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Numbers Avatar
Numbers L W
Shepherdsville, KY, USA   USA
With my Peerless installation I'll require additional braces close to the differential. In other words, two outer braces (main frame) and two inner braces.

The questions are how many locking collars are required and do they go on the inside of the brace/frame or the outside or both ?

From the looks of it on the pictures on this site, it's done in a variety of ways with the only thought being to prevent lateral motion. Appears to be 4 locking collars but the pictures are not giving a clear view of all collars.

...I'm guessing that the clearance between collar and bearing is between .0.10" - 0.15" (2.54mm-3.81mm).

Lastly, while previewing my posting, I noticed that the posting had "Posted: 48 years ago"

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
I'm not too sure about the locking collars, but you do need the extra bearings there.

Numbers Avatar
Numbers L W
Shepherdsville, KY, USA   USA
Thank you Rhys,

I'm still not sure which way it goes and I've ran an exhaustive search for pictures and or information here on this site. Your name and Dennis came up frequently in the topic of Peerless setups and bearing placement. I'm going forward with collar placement on the inside of the outer rails and outside of the inner rails/bearing mounts for a total of two per side (4).

The bearings I have do not have integral locking collars. Mine are separately installed from the bearing. Here are a few pictures from elsewhere and here. Unknown reasons why the VKC setup shown has that many locking collars.

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
I'm sorry I can't be of any specific help, as I don't believe they are needed. If you analyse a method to stop each shaft moving sideways, I would think that 2 each side, one stopping outward and the other inward float I can't see any need for more. There may be some to stop the sprocket and the brake disc from floating too, so perhaps a total of 8!

Numbers Avatar
Numbers L W
Shepherdsville, KY, USA   USA
In reply to # 34349 by Rhysn I'm sorry I can't be of any specific help, as I don't believe they are needed. If you analyse a method to stop each shaft moving sideways, I would think that 2 each side, one stopping outward and the other inward float I can't see any need for more. There may be some to stop the sprocket and the brake disc from floating too, so perhaps a total of 8!

The differential has my brake and sprocket attached.

Karting sites discusses chassis flex, locking down a single bearing, etc... Somewhat interesting subject but I'm not sure how much crossover is applicable in cyclekarts.

https://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?78348-Question-about-using-Axle-Collars

I'm still locked in for 4 unless a better reason pops up between now and next Friday.

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
Given that your sprocket and brake are attached to the diff, I would guess that 4 will do the job. You can always add others if they are found to be needed. I have found the split versions work better than the one piece for what it's worth.

I wonder if the VKC use of so many helps to limit the flex of the mounting system/plate by turning the whole thing into a unit?

Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
I have used dual discs on the rear diff, so I can brake both axles. I think I have 7 split collars on my rear axle.
As my feeling is that you should have "No" lateral movement of any of the parts attached to the rear axle.
Chain alignment is so very important. I also have solid calliper mounts, so after the rotors are aligned for no drag I want them to stay there!
Brian


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Numbers Avatar
Numbers L W
Shepherdsville, KY, USA   USA
If VKC does this to limit mount flex, does this cut down on the the ability of the chassis to flex for turning ability ? ...or does this not affect a cyclekart because the dynamics are so much different than a go kart ? IE.. Tires, center of balance, weight, tube frame, etc...

www.kartpartsdepot.com/product_p/007.htm

Numbers Avatar
Numbers L W
Shepherdsville, KY, USA   USA
In reply to # 34369 by Woodysrods I have used dual discs on the rear diff, so I can brake both axles. I think I have 7 split collars on my rear axle.
As my feeling is that you should have "No" lateral movement of any of the parts attached to the rear axle.
Chain alignment is so very important. I also have solid calliper mounts, so after the rotors are aligned for no drag I want them to stay there!
Brian

Would going for a NO or Zero lateral movement cause any binding issues ? Most of the recommended setting up of the collars on go karts have a clearance to allow for minute amount of lateral movement. That should not interfere with braking or chain/spocket alignment depending on how much clearance is used. However, this is a cyclekart and the dynamics are different. Engineering manuals are vague when discussing clearances on locking collars in regards to how much torque is required for how much clearance. There was discussion regarding "rocking" of parts which caused undue wear when the tolerance is too much. In other words, I'm finding arguments for both.

Should I notice undue wear, ineffective braking, or chain jumping from my installation, I will report back here.

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
Don't get too technical! KISS

Numbers Avatar
Numbers L W
Shepherdsville, KY, USA   USA
In reply to # 34381 by Rhysn Don't get too technical! KISS

Absolutely. With the time I have available to ask questions I figure to use it wisely so I don't have to rebuild a mistake that could have been prevented by asking a question. Cut once, measure twice type of philosophy.

Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Yes, technical can cost a lot of time (ask me!) this are simple machines.
My advice is also KISS!
Do as I asy, not as I do!
Woody

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hi,

With my last two CK, I used 4 clamps, it seems to me enough.
To talk about the "flexibility" of the chassis, I think our chassis have none.
We can only rely on direction for turns.

Maybe it can help.
Fabrice


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Numbers Avatar
Numbers L W
Shepherdsville, KY, USA   USA
Merci. It does help. Your pictures are beautiful. Differentials usually look ugly but yours is a work of art. Are you concerned with dirt on an open differential ? What kind of differential do you have ?

Little French Avatar
Little French Silver Member Fabrice B
PUY DU LAC, Charente maritime, France   FRA
Hi,
In fact this model was the first prototype, it will probably be replaced by a closed model and more "powerful"
For this old CK, I was thinking about a recovery model like unlicensed cars or golf carts.
Here is the prototype 2, but who will not be mounted on this CK but a third under construction ...
If this type of differential interests you, I made the plan on our Forum Gears Différential



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