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The Angle of Attack?

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Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Trying to figure the front wheel angle so the kart can make a U turn in the average
paved street. The one out in front of the house is 22 feet to the outside of the
white lines.
With my inner wheel turned to 38 degrees it should have a turning radius of
9.75 feet or prescribe a circle of 19.5 feet. While the outer wheel will need 25.2 feet.
And of course the length of the wheel base is going to change that. I’m working
with a 72” WB for my figures. A 66” WB at 38 degrees would turn the inner wheel
in a little less than 18 feet, with the outer wheel at 23.2 feet.
Has anyone else made any measurements of the angle that their front wheels are at
in a full turn?
I believe we’ve talked about something similar a year or so back, but can’t seem to
dig that up.
DG

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andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
Is your ck a one wheel drive or does it have a diff? I can tell you from personal experience that a live rear axle with both wheels driven and no diff absolutely kills the turning radius. To the point where 40' isn't enough to turn around in.

But I am working on a clever, light and cheap fix for that!



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Nope, no sense in having to rear wheels when only one is doing the pulling and stopping.
I do have a Peerless 100 and a Pro-Gear locking differential on the shelf and I'm very
interested in Fabrice's limited slip spur gear differential.
But mainly what I'm interested in right now is setting up the front end geometry. I'm using
a Ross 200 series steering gear and am working out the lever ratios for the pitman arm and
steering arms. 38 degrees king pin rotation in either direction looks to be adequate for
most situations.
Was just wondering if anyone had done any calculation when they built their kart.
DG

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andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
I did a scale drawing of the wheels and the frame and the body width to determine if there was enough room to turn the wheels some reasonable amount. Nothing beyond that.



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela

Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
I will be waiting Denny........figure it out fast, as I am ready to weld!smiling bouncing smiley
Brian

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Just gettin' back from the eye doctor, trying to get another year out of them before
I replace the bulbs.
You orta know better by now than to wait on anything I might do or contribute Brian.
Since I passed AARP age I've gotten slower than Snail $#!@. So....strike up the arc
and start poring wire into those frames.
But as I posted, 38° isn't gonna U-turn a long kart around in a two lane street. And as
Andrew pointed out, locking up the rear axle makes it even worse.
Shorter wheel base is gonna turn shorter, I think Dave posted that somewhere about
his.
DG

RROLDSX Silver Member Randy R
Delta, BC, Canada   CAN
Ya gotta take a run at it and whip that tail around. I think I’m going to be a bit hard on the 17” Honda moped wheels.
Might have to get some wheels like Bloody Mary had at Tieton.

Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Okay.......I have been holding off on my motor mount and rear axle location for over a week now!confused smiley
I thought I had made that decision until Denny brought up turning radius????/eye rolling smiley
Trying to keep the motor low......and in front of the axle but that ads a minimum of 3" to my wheelbase.
Which as originally to be 69" but was changed to 71" or 72"
Put that engine out back and you can be be anywhere between 65" and 69".

????????????????? It is this overthinking that is starting to slow down yet another project.
Brian

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
What do you care about turning radius on an ice racer?
Everything will be done sliding around with throttle steering anyway.

Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
I want it to be so much more!
And it looks like we won't get any ICE this year anyways??eye rolling smiley
Brian

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Keep in mind when I'm talking about this turning radius and such for my Riley,
this is still all on paper....make that CAD. But now that I have her down on all four,
I suppose I could roll her outside and make some actual measurements.
Also Brian, you would know more than I for sure, having been to Tieton and
driven some of the karts. There were several of the Gitterville guys with long
WB karts that seemed to handle the turns just fine. I think it would be rather
rare that we would need to make a hairpin turn on any of the circuits that I've
seen the guys running on.
dg

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Even Derek's Bentley with it's whopping 82 inch wheelbase
gets around just fine.

Woodysrods Avatar
Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
In reply to # 37494 by CmdBentaxle Even Derek's Bentley with it's whopping 82 inch wheelbase
gets around just fine.
Wow. does the Bentley really have an 82" Wheelbase?confused smiley
I made my final decision today on mine (for the Ice Racer),it will be 72".
You just don't know until you try!eye rolling smiley
But Mikuni......here we come!
Good Roads
Brian
PS
And Dave, here is a picture of Doug's Bloody Mary at Tieton lsat year!
Notice anything?????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-14 01:46 AM by Woodysrods.


Attachments:
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P6161837.JPG

Smoky Avatar
Smoky Silver Member Don Schmok
Salmon Arm, BC, Canada   CAN
Yes, I notice that is a 160cc Predator engine. With a nice carb!



1929 Riley Bitsa

Carlos Carneiro Avatar
PHOENIX, AZ, USA   USA
2015 CycleKart American "2015 VKC Italiano"
In reply to # 37506 by Smoky Yes, I notice that is a 160cc Predator engine. With a nice carb!

Is it a Predator?
I think I remember seeing a Honda cover on it.at the race.
But I could be mistaken.
Can anyone confirm?

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