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The w154 "Vulture" build project

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andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
Hear, hear!



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela

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Wikispeeder Bruce C
Tewksbury, MA, USA   USA
Andy, your kart was a real hit! Inspirational too. I wish I had the patience to wait till there were "found items" to use on my kart, but I fear I'd never finish, and it loses out on something for all that. Yours has so much soul. Love it love it love it!

It was super meeting you and your father, and I'm glad you got to experience the rest of the North East crew. Can't wait to see what she looks like come the spring meetup.



- Bruce



"Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught." - Winston Churchill

andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
Likewise. Meeting everyone was great fun and I admired your dedication to the project, having come to the meet with a non running ck. The roller looks good, with lots of nice welds.

In the case of the Vulture, I suppose "has lots of soul" can be a synonym for "is made of garbage"! Hahahaha. But it's nice of you to say. And it's true that nearly every part on it has some of my sweat, and in some cases a little blood, in it. If you're wondering if it's worth doing this way, the answer is yes. Crafting each part, working out the bugs and watching them finally work right is immensely satisfying.

As for patience, that was by necessity. When I started this project, I had very little disposable income as I was still an apprentice electrician. The upside of that is I have nearly $1500 left in the budget to experiment with exotic items. My latest idea is a system of on-board cameras, a laptop and an electric boost motor. I'll keep you all updated on that progress.



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-12 11:55 AM by andrewroudny.

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andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
I made a vow that I wouldn't work on the Vulture again till 2019. But that doesn't mean I can't brainstorm and research!

Here's the possible solution to my drive system problems. I'll keep you all updated when work resumes.



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-21 08:17 AM by andrewroudny.


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jcny Avatar
jcny Silver Member John Corey
Melrose, NY, USA   USA
1927 CycleKart French "Sam"
1934 CycleKart Italian "Tazio"
Are thinking of this as a lateral link, to take up the vertical motion between engine and axle? How will you account for the change in length as this shaft moves through angles? is there a sliding spline in there?



Builder: John 'the Fierce' Corey, aka Lord Emile Salmson (or Lordy Miles On Some)

andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. The motor would drive a sprocket attached to one end of this shaft (mounted to the frame), and the other end would be attached to a sprocket mounted to the rear suspension. I had hoped that the variations in length would be negligible, but there is indeed a sliding spline in there.

The only thing standing in my way (so far) is that it's too long and would have to be shortened. And with the sliding spline, I'm not sure how much I could shorten it before I screwed up the sliding mechanism. Obviously I would attempt the shortening on the end that doesn't slide in and out.

We shall see.

In reply to # 35916 by jcny Are thinking of this as a lateral link, to take up the vertical motion between engine and axle? How will you account for the change in length as this shaft moves through angles? is there a sliding spline in there?



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela

Macadoo Mike McCloud/M
Polson, MT, USA   USA
Heya Andre, I like the idea of the sliding spline as it's a commonly used feature to allow differences between components in many applications. It's not difficult to limit a range of motion if needed, & might be a way for you to move forward on your project. This'd let you work between problems, possibly coming back to how much spline you'd need, or where to change a temporary limit of range. Chevy & Ford both used a 2 piece driveshaft in pickups, both had their problems with excess torque or ranges of motions. but they had sliding lengths of about 2" to 2 1/2", totalled each way from a center reference. Don't flounder, it's workable. After all, they provided the parts, you just have to fit em' ! Good Luck, this has been a great follow thru read !

andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
Thanks Mike!

I was surprised the belt drive didn't work. I figured that would be an absolute lock. But there just wasn't enough tension on the belt to keep it from skipping. Yesterday I happened to walking by the Vulture in the garage and noticed that the rear axle was touching the motor. On further inspection, I realized that I had tightened the drive belt so much that I actually pulled the entire rear suspension backwards about a quarter inch. The pivot points had twisted the wood frame! Yikes.

But if I can make the shaft drive system work, then there will be a way to reliably create a rear suspension that doesn't require mounting the engine to the suspension. Sprung weight all!

Anyway, I get to start working on it again in a month. So I'll let you know how it goes.



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela

dBlast Avatar
dBlast Vince De Blasi
Maple, ON, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 36423 by andrewroudny

But if I can make the shaft drive system work, then there will be a way to reliably create a rear suspension that doesn't require mounting the engine to the suspension. Sprung weight all!


Andrew,

Check out how the guys from "Cars and Cameras" handle the rear suspension on their monster truck go kart. The engine is solidly mounted to frame and the rear suspension pivots on the jack shaft so there is no chain (or belt) tensioning required.

Vince.

1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, FL, USA   USA
I started preliminary sketches for independent rear suspension for my next attempt at a cyclekart. The goal is four wheel independent suspension. The front is easy. The rear, not so much. I'm leaning toward a swing axle setup with torsion bars. The problems with it are weight and engine/TAV location.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
These photos might give you some ideas Rick, came from here: https://www.500race.org/web/Marques/ultra.htm.


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1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, FL, USA   USA
Thanks, Chris. I'll read that article later when I have time, but it looks interesting.

MichaelR Avatar
MichaelR Michael Richard
Albany, GA., USA   USA
Just kinda catching the tail end of this, but are you trying to go front engine and use drive shafts with a swing arm for suspension? If so you could use a fixed position drive shaft from motor to rear and use the universal joint drive shaft from there to the diff. As long as you mount the center of the U joint at the center pivot point of the swing arm mount axles you won't need to worry about sliding. It won't have to. Look at the drive shaft unit on a Honda cx500 street bike to see what I mean. and if this isn't what you're trying to do just ignoring me won't hurt my feelings. lol

Denny Graham Gold Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Boy O boy, we sure are drifting further and further away from what the "Cyclekart" is
supposed to emulate. That is, the cars from the first Golden Age of the Automobile, the 1920's.
Or the age of the "Cyclecar".
dg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-30 06:32 PM by Denny Graham.

andrewroudny Avatar
andrewroudny andrew roudny
peterborough, ON, Canada   CAN
1939 CycleKart German "The Vulture"
This is, in theory, a very good idea. But in my application it has two problems. First, the pivot point of my suspension is under the steering wheel, not behind the seat, and my suspension beams are so flexible it may as well be independent, so I would be getting a fair bit of twisting, which would be inclined to throw a chain. But I will keep you updated on this idea.


In reply to # 36430 by dBlast
In reply to # 36423 by andrewroudny

But if I can make the shaft drive system work, then there will be a way to reliably create a rear suspension that doesn't require mounting the engine to the suspension. Sprung weight all!


Andrew,

Check out how the guys from "Cars and Cameras" handle the rear suspension on their monster truck go kart. The engine is solidly mounted to frame and the rear suspension pivots on the jack shaft so there is no chain (or belt) tensioning required.

Vince.



"I never lose. I either win or learn.”
-Nelson Mandela

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