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Front engine mounting design.

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Gtownjake Avatar
Gtownjake Eric Jacobson
Georgetown, TX, USA   USA
Engine in front mounted 'sideways' (crankshaft pointing towards the rear).
TAV 2 Comet torque converter mounted vertically and 'outward'. Meaning the driven sprocket is outside of the converter, not the usual placement between the engine and converter. You must use reverse coiled spring for this to happen. Framing support needed at this junction!
#40 chain connected to identical sized (1:1) sprocket that is mounted to the driveshaft.
1.25" tube driveshaft connected to a right angle gear box (RAGB ) with a 1:1 ratio.
RAGB has the 10 or 12 tooth "drive" sprocket that is connected to the 60 or 72 tooth axle sprocket.

Anyone see anything wrong with this set up?







One could always connect the driveshaft directly to a small diff as well.

I don't know enough about mechanics to know if this would work or if it's worth it....would you lose too much power in a driveshaft set up? How long is too long before you do?

Also, a different approach I was thinking about....and this is out there....is using the smallest automobile converter I could find. Yes, the actual automatic converter that fits into the transmission. That fat rounded doughnut shape thingy. Splined couplings between crankshaft and converter as well as the converter and the driveshaft. Question for this set up is ..... does the 200cc engine create enough torque to actually activate the converter? Can this work?

Would love to mate this to a GX690 V-Twin...<Austin Powers> "Grrrrrrr baby"

What say you?

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carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Hey Austin, a drive shaft has to be of a considerable size to with stand the torque of take off and stop. I don't think 1.25" is going to cut it. You're better off with a hardened solid rod.



S'all for now!

Gtownjake Avatar
Gtownjake Eric Jacobson
Georgetown, TX, USA   USA
Was just thinking weight when 'choosing' the tube material.
Nice to know but is there really that much torque generated by a 200cc engine?
I would think the converter would 'buffer' the start and stop stresses.
Maybe not though.....like I said, I'm about as sharp as a bowling ball when it comes to mechanicals.

Thanks for the advice. What I love about the forums...smarter peeps than I here.

Eric

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bobzdar Peter Terrana
Mechanicsville, VA, USA   USA
Keep in mind whenever you do a geared 90 deg change in power direction, you lose around 10% in power loss. Between the added weight and power loss I'm not sure it would be worth doing unless you wanted an exposed engine.

bobwilcox Avatar
bobwilcox Gold Member Bob Wilcox
Riverside, MO, USA   USA
1925 Ford Model T "Speedway Special"
1934 Austin America "Austin American Special"
How about a hydraulic pump and rotary actuator. Anything but a solid rod.

moto-klasika Avatar
moto-klasika Zoran R. Pualic
Bern, Bern, Switzerland   CHE
Hello Eric,
From my experience with other motorised cars - for propeller-shaft (as you said "drive shaft", or "kardan" as we called it), the best is tube of bigger diameter with relatively thin walls. As I remember, for our 3.5 tonne truck, we had propeller-shaft of around 2" - and it was quite heavy. For Custom CK - something much lighter with tinnier wall?
The main problem, beside weight, could be strong vibrations if system isn't well balanced. Some experiments should be useful, but need time and money.
Maybe to use long chain with tensioner, or two chain system (primary and secondary), as simpelr, lighter and cheaper system for front-engine, rear-power? (or combinations of belts and chains as on attached sketch)

However many people build reverse-trikes (two wheels at front and one at rear), with engine at front, using similar DIY systems as you described. (you could take a look at some forums, or Yahoo groups).


Ciao, Zoran




Zoran R. Pualić
(mostly living in Bern, Swiss & happy in my Belgrade, Serbia)


Attachments:
transs. belt and chain - Copy.jpg    28.9 KB
transs. belt and chain - Copy.jpg

carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Sorry Eric, I read something about a 690. I'm all for experimenting, and don't really care if it gets broke on the way. That sir is how we learn.



S'all for now!

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akumabito Avatar
akumabito Joost van Ekris
Smilde, Drenthe, Netherlands   NLD
What would be the smallest and lightest automotive torque converter? I think something off a VW perhaps.. I think their smallest engine with a regular auto box was a 1.6l unit. There are some Euro and Japanese 1 liter autos but I think those are all CVTs that don't use a proper torque converter.

I think the TC would be too big and heavy for a 200cc. I don't know if you could run them with less oil?

One of the smallest and cheapest car CVTs would be the Fiat Selecta. Plenry of those available. Usually coupled to a 1.1 55hp engine. Many have problems with their clutch though and repairs are expensive.

RossD Avatar
RossD Ross D
Appleton, WI, USA   USA
You might as well get a proper rear axle from either a golf cart/cushman or adapt a shaft drive motorcycle rear axle. At that point you could just as well use the motorcycle engine and gear box too and just length the shaft to fit.

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Insanebrain Boyd G
Armidale, NSW, Australia   AUS
In reply to a post by Ross D You might as well get a proper rear axle from either a golf cart/cushman or adapt a shaft drive motorcycle rear axle. At that point you could just as well use the motorcycle engine and gear box too and just length the shaft to fit.

That is the approach I am contemplating for mine - take a 2wd ATV, chop in half, lengthen and then you have front engine, steering, 4 wheel brakes, diff , suspension all in one. Would definitely be a custom cart though! For those of us downunder, it also gets around some of the crucial parts unavailability of a typical cyclekart and atvs are very commonly available off farms.

skibo Leonce LaRouche
Longview, WA, USA   USA
Check out a snowmobile's drive, front engine, cvt drive, just a thought!

Scubajed Avatar
Scubajed Jerrod Kelly
Greenvale, VIC, Australia   AUS
One thing you must do if experimenting with drive shafts, install a catch hoop under the shaft at the front. This way if the system snaps at the front it will not drop to the ground and dig in. Maybe flipping your unit.
Be safe

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
Not many front engine karts around and most are using chain Jerrod.
But.... that's a good point if one does choose to try a front engine/driveshaft
kart. If my memory serves me right, I believe NHRA requires one if you
run big fat tires with a lot of bite, like slicks.
I'd hate to be in the cockpit if one let loose either in the front or the rear.
Ya might be talking with a squeaky voice the rest of your life.if you survived it.
The data that Smoky posted the other day suggests that the weight distrbution
is right in the ball park with the rear engine cyclekart designs that exist today.
Just like the Corvair or rear engine Porsche's it's all in the way the weight
is distributed, not which end it's being driven from.


Tks
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-08 10:20 AM by Denny Graham.

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