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One Wheel To Rule Them All?

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Chamberlin Tony Chamberlin
Seattle, WA, USA   USA
Hi everyone I'm new here so let me first introduce myself. I have always loved tinkering. Not a big "Car Guy" which is one reason im keen on cycle karts. A designer by trade I love making things and defiantly wan't to build. I've been day dreaming for years but looks like there may be an opportunity to do more that just day dream soon ( my kids aren't babies anymore smiling smiley. Hope to to make it to Tieton this year (as a spectator) and see where that takes me.

With that said I've been absorbing as much as i can on build techniques and "specs" for the cars and one thing that would like to do on my future car wouild be to run the same wheel front or back. There are a lot of good reasons to do this I think but being that I'm new here im sure that someone else has looking into this. I generaly i try to keep it simple which this is not necessarily what i have here but the benefits might out weigh the added complexity. Below are some images of what im thinking. essentially you use the same drive method as the Honda trail bike. This could be with a custom setup like i have below or modifying the Honda sprocket side hub ( i don't have one to look at so didn't CAD it up.). For the front this would bolt up to a typical Azusa spindle setup that's already being used.

Would love to hear your thoughts etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-05-03 11:58 PM by Chamberlin.

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fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, OR, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
I was at Tieton for the first time last year,what a great bunch of guys to hang out with.They are from all parts of the country and some from the outside.All I can say if this is your first Kart kepp it simple until you see what works and what don't.I would take a look at some of the Karts Dennis has built along with the one Cameron built,both on Youtube.I had my problems but were easily fixed when I got home.Take your time when you design and you will make changes beings the nature of the project.Take a look at a few of my pics which might also help,can be found in my home page.Chitty was a challenge to get the wood to bend without breaking ,with me being a big guy also had given me more changes in what I designed

carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Welcome Tony, that is basically what everybody is running. Except with the wheel turned around and the new hub where the brake goes.



S'all for now!

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Chamberlin Tony Chamberlin
Seattle, WA, USA   USA
The difference as I understand it is that the Azusa Hub is bolted on the hub after drilling with 4 bolts. This makes the front and rear wheel different ? I hadn't seen setups where the front and rear wheels are interchangeable. In what I have it would use rear ct90 wheel on the front or rear.

Chamberlin Tony Chamberlin
Seattle, WA, USA   USA
Ya, at this point I'm just playing in CAD ( it's free). I figure I'll wait to build until after I get to attend some event.

RallyKart Avatar
RallyKart Justin Carven
Portland, OR, USA   USA
Looks Great! I was thinking along the same lines but just a solid engagement (the "sprocket damper" idea sounds cool though). I can see why many folks would go the simpler route of drilling a few holes and running a gokart hub, especially those with limited fabrication resources, and obviously it seems to do the job just fine. However I do believe a design like yours would center the wheel better and put less strain on the wheel in the long run (as long as the cast fins in the wheel hub are well engaged) and should make it nice and simple to swap wheels. Nice rendering too.

YourSolutions Steve Nicholson
Tauranga, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand   NZL
Hi Tony. What you are proposing is similar to what I'll be running on the back of my kart when I get round to building it. The CT90 hubs weren't really designed to have holes drilled in them, to bolt to another hub, in my opinion this just weakens the hub. Since the wheels are so difficult to get I'll be running mine with the least amount of drilling possible. I have all my wheels now (for two karts) and aim to use fronts on the front and rears on the back, since that's the best option for wheel sets I have. If you get the wheels from an old bike you tend to get fronts and backs together.

The fronts are easy to fit on a front kart axle once you have the right bearings. As Justin notes, most don't have the fabrication resources to create a correctly rear fitting hub as you have drawn. Great work coming up with an idea that could be done at home as an alternative to the gokart hub. I think the cost of getting the "drive plate" (as indicated in your drawing) made up at a local fabricator would be worth the cost to keep the bike wheel hub strong.

The only thing I would consider adding is an aluminium disk in the brake drum side to help strength the hub against horizontal forces in cornering.

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fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, OR, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
I did the same on mine,I put the drive hub in the lathe,turned it down to fit inside the hub and sandwiched it together with 3/8" bolts so that it has no room to move.You can see some of the pics on my profile which I posted a few from last year when I constructed it.This year I had planned to finish it,but that didnt happen,DAMN,I will be in Titeton though,still not very good lookin kart but it is fast.I couldnt go very fast on the gravel roads due to the steering issue,easy to over steer into a ditch,going to fix that with a steering gear I found on Ebay,still havnt found time to fix that beings I bought a new Toyhauler to get it there and a 2009 Harley sportster for riding to work.If you need anything answered just ask,we all here love this sport and enjoy helping others

Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Hi Don
Where am I looking for pictures of your rear hub set up?
Brian

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carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Brian, click on fly44 in the previous post and view Don's journal.



S'all for now!

fly44 Avatar
fly44 Don Nothwang/c
Hillsboro, OR, USA   USA
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
1921 CycleKart German "Chitty"
I hope those pics help,I turned the hub down to fit and sandwiched the wheel with 3/8" bolts.So far none of them have come loose,and I dont see any wear

Hello Group,
The other thing to consider is the front wheels don't have the webbing in them, and lots of rear wheels have the webs broken or rewelded in an attempt to fix the drive of the bike the wheel came off of.
What about 2 plates that sandwich the hub and the inner plate has studs that ingage into holes but no bolt's all the way though for a Finnish look like the fronts. Then you could use the front and back the same if they both have the holes for the pins for the inside plate.
I'm looking at this idea for my cart not there yet but if I do I will share my plan.

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris

Pierro Taruffi Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffs, UK   GBR
1923 CycleKart Vintage "Voisin Laboratoire"
Instead of using bolts right through with nuts, a number of folks have tapped the outside plate and flush finished. I am not bothered about "drilling holes" through the web, as they are already there courtesy of Mr Honda. I use front wheels on the front, and then have a disc of 8mm alloy which is an interference fit on the lip of the brake drum, and the same on the centre bearing housing. Having said that I have only seen one wheel fail and it had done countless events, and driven "enthusiastically".

We are not heading down yet another "looking for solutions to problems that are not really there" are we?

Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
In reply to # 17007 by Pierro Taruffi Instead of using bolts right through with nuts, a number of folks have tapped the outside plate and flush finished. I am not bothered about "drilling holes" through the web, as they are already there courtesy of Mr Honda. I use front wheels on the front, and then have a disc of 8mm alloy which is an interference fit on the lip of the brake drum, and the same on the centre bearing housing. Having said that I have only seen one wheel fail and it had done countless events, and driven "enthusiastically".

We are not heading down yet another "looking for solutions to problems that are not really there" are we?

Well said Rhys!
Good Roads
Brian

Chamberlin Tony Chamberlin
Seattle, WA, USA   USA
In reply to # 17007 by Pierro Taruffi Instead of using bolts right through with nuts, a number of folks have tapped the outside plate and flush finished. I am not bothered about "drilling holes" through the web, as they are already there courtesy of Mr Honda. I use front wheels on the front, and then have a disc of 8mm alloy which is an interference fit on the lip of the brake drum, and the same on the centre bearing housing. Having said that I have only seen one wheel fail and it had done countless events, and driven "enthusiastically".

We are not heading down yet another "looking for solutions to problems that are not really there" are we?

Its more than likely im going down a well traveled road. Whats got me thinking is wouldn't it be easier if all the wheels were i identical front or back so if you happen to have a spare you could bolt it on with one bolt in any location. From what Rhys described still seems like the front wheels are not interchangeable with the rears? In the "design" i have going it uses one common wheel (a CT90 rear). here is a pic of the front wheel setup which is more inline with typical setups ive seen.


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