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Seat belts. What are your thoughts?

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
I'm prepared for a wide variety of views on this.
I have pretty much decided to install one.
Are you with me? Tell me why.
Think it's a dumb idea? Tell me about that too.
Let's knock the thing around.

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roadster1 Avatar
roadster1 Silver Member Allen Bass
Bellingham, WA, USA   USA
Seat belts are a good idea with a roll bar.
If you roll over Without a roll bar and wearing a belt you will be held in the car as it goes over and your head will be the roll bar.
Without a belt you have a chance of being thrown clear.
I am not looking forward to rolling .
just my thoughts.
Al

1908Rick Avatar
1908Rick Rick Eggers
Cape Coral, FL, USA   USA
I'm with Al on this one. No belt without a roll bar, and I don't want to have to install a roll bar.

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CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Fair points both, and of course the conventional reasoning over the years.
Being strapped into an open car going over typically would be very bad news.
But is a 250lb CycleKart with a deeply side cut cockpit typical? I'm thinking it might be a trade
off, of sorts. The added risk of rollover injury vs the added protection from a heavy front impact.
If it's a matter of Pick your Poison, I'm not so sure it isn't worth the trade.

Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
I think added "Safety Equipment" will just give a false sense of security that will even make these toys "MORE" unsafe than they already are.
Fear is sometimes a good deterrent to pushing machines beyond their capabilities.
Our driver "age demographic" pretty much assures us that we are "aware" of how much or how easily we can or could get hurt, if we venture past the realm of "Just Having Fun".
We race them....but they are not really race cars???????????
Brian

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
That as you know, has been my argument against roll bars, and I think it's a valid one.
I do believe guys would start pressing harder, with the assurance of that bar up there, but we also know
how easy it is to get pretty bashed up in even a 10mph impact, in a 50mph capable vehicle.
I'm sure part of it is that I just like the feeling of having my posterior lashed down to whatever I'm driving.

MalibuMan Cas Tuyn
Weert, Limburg, Netherlands   NLD
I like the period-correctness of no seat belt. In fact, in my 2009 Audi I have disabled the warning light and audio that annoy me when I don't wear a seat belt.

Second as I want to go road-legal for my cyclekart there is the law. The dutch RDW says no belt is needed if your vehicle is below 270 kg, but it is mandatory above. So I'm building mine to be below 270 kg. The saved weight of no rollbar and no seatbelt will definitely help.

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
I have very mixed feelings on this.
Would it have helped my grazes at Tieton, no, as one thing you will do is put your arm out anyway. I had time to think "bad idea, collarbone" and grazed my forearm. Leg came from scrambling out.
Will you get thrown out? I don't think so, most of us are a pretty snug fit and you will come out partway unless your accident is at very high speed.
Would either a belt, or not, have helped in the incident which I suspect Dave was inspired to write this by (I will not expand, so please don't ask) , emphatic no.
My conclusion, if it helps you to stay put in your seat, so you can steer without grabbing at the steering wheel and therefore be in better control, it's a good thing, any other reason is arguable.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
My thoughts; three point belt with roll bar - possibly: three point belt without roll bar -no; lap belt without roll bar - possibly. Having said that I won't be fitting a seat belt, though I can see the advantage of having a belt that keeps you in the kart without stopping you tucking down in the cockpit. For my part I'll drive within the limitations of my Morgan, only having three wheels lifting one seems like an awfully bad idea!

Chris

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TheGIantTribble Avatar
Chelmsford, Essex, UK   GBR
I'm inclined to the view if the original didn't have one, you shouldn't.
That said if someone would feel more combatable with one I wouldn't deny them the right.
After all it's better have and not need than the other way round.

Final thought, if I wanted to go to the trouble of adding the weight, complexity, chassis stiffness of a roll cage, I would want it to be a racing car.
Bah... ask me after I've driven mine

Kelly Wood Avatar
Salt Lake City, UT, USA   USA
1910 CycleKart Great Britain "Sargette"
Good thoughts here.

My 2 cents:

Having been in the racing world for a while, and karts in particular, I'm for not having either.

Why?
1. Weight of roll bar.
and
2. If you roll it, getting thrown clear is preferable. Going down with the ship will hurt more... AND, if you're strapped into it, it'll be harder for you, or anyone... to help you get out.

We drive these knowing full well the dangers, thus, I'd think the hope is not to over-drive them and turn it into some dangerous competition. It doesn't matter who wins, just as long as you got to drive your creation right?

On the other side: If a person wants to put it in their car, of course it's just fine too.

Drive on.



Over think it... and you'll probably fail.

carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Seeing I rolled mine, no to belt, no to roll bar.

A street car is different, bigger weight. Completely rolled my car before, the seat belt saved me. So, if you're ever thinking of driving your car without one, just beware of the idiot behind you or soon to be behind you.



S'all for now!

Dakrov47 Dave T
Sioux Falls, SD, USA   USA
On the 31st of March I rollrd my kart. The result was a lacerated liver, two cracked vertebrate and five broken ribs. Would a seat belt have helped, I don't know. I was partially thrown out of the car and this is what caused the problem. A better solution to the problem is to get the center of gravity as low as possible to prevent the tendency of the car to roll. SAFETY is the most important aspect of our sport. All of this happened at 25 mph.

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
Guys, thank you for your input.
Every one of the responses above have been thoughtful and well reasoned.
What's driving me on this thing is that the more I see, the more begin to feel that the greater risk to life and limb is not the rollover accident. It is the impact wreck that I fear much more. I agree that a harness, with no roll bar would be foolhardy. A lap belt is what I have in mind. You know how I feel about roll bars in Cyclekarts. My sense is that the notion of falling free of a tumbling C/K as you would a go kart may be wishful thinking, as Rhys noted. I have seen enough to show me that running into something solid, even at less than 10 mph can do serious injury.
I don't think I'm likely to fly out all the way in a flip. But I'm petty confident in what would happen if Icrashed nose first into a post, or a concrete block.

Kelly Wood Avatar
Salt Lake City, UT, USA   USA
1910 CycleKart Great Britain "Sargette"
A final thought from me, if I may.

While I agree with one side mainly, I surely can see the need for safety...

... but in the end, and as a racer:

1. Know your car.
2. Ensure your nuts & bolts are properly maintained, tight, etc.
3. Routine inspections for cracks & possible problems.
4. Make sure your brakes actually function... and know what the car will do.

Its my responsibility to know my car. I built it. It is also my job to know what I'm actually capable of doing in it. The minute "I" do not know these things...

... Then I am the most dangerous thing on the road, in a cyclekart.

And near 50 mph, you're a land missle that will probably kill any living thing you hit. Pray it's not a child.



Over think it... and you'll probably fail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-26 03:08 PM by Kelly Wood.

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