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UK based cycle karts

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Fusion4711 Ron Chandler
Colchester, Essex, UK   GBR
Hi Guys,

I'm following the UK thread and coming to the point to start what will be two builds. One will be a road going version of the traditional cycle kart but with most probably a 125cc motorbike unit with 5 speed gearbox. There just aren't the open spaces in the UK like our cousins across the pond have to drive and race around the countryside and so it must be road legal. The other will be to use a 1200cc motorbike engine in a reverse trike configuration and most definitely not anything like a cycle kart. The garage and workshop are now more or less ready and just waiting for some warmer weather before starting the first build. I like the idea of starting with the traditional cycle kart as I'm sure I can learn some valuable lessons before getting in to something a lot more dangerous. I'll be happy to share my progress once the cycle kart build starts. If anyone has built one of these karts for the road then any useful information would be appreciated.

The reason I have opted for a reverse trike for the "other" build is for simplicity and to overcome the need for a complicated rear suspension and differential. I would like a four wheel version for the cycle kart but again, a three wheel reverse trike configuration looks tempting to keep things simple. A solid axle, use of differential or to drive just one wheel each seems to have there own drawbacks for a road going version used mostly on tarmac roads. Any comments?

Regards

Ron Chandler
Colchester UK

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PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, OR, USA   USA
Hi Ron
Sounds like some very interesting projects you're planning but I think your questions and ideas would be better served over in the 'Custom Karts' forum. Go up to the top and find it under 'Forums".

Good luck!

TheGIantTribble Avatar
Chelmsford, Essex, UK   GBR
Hello Ron, and welcome.

Sounds interesting projects.
Re road use, unfortunately the DVLA has a whole bunch of does and don't...mostly don'ts!!!
You can avoid needing to register the cart, if you meet a whole bunch of criteria.
IIRC, when I briefly looked into it a couple of years ago, they wanted breaking on all fours wheels (this adds weight and complexity), they wanted working lights (this also adds weight and complexity), engine below a certain output (for some reason 17kw sticks in mind but I'm probably wrong), below a certain weight limit, also working gauges...you would think they were trying to be spoilsports! Plus they have probably changed the rules since then.

The upshot was I felt cylekart and road legal were too contradictory for here in the UK.
In all honesty for the amount of pain involved, you would probably be better building a small replica and try getting it through IVA.
Either way I still would like to see a build dairy and pictures please smiling smiley

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
Announcing here and in the Events (being the correct sub forum) The First Great British CycleKart Meet up is happening. Date to be finalised to suit as many as we can, Stretton Kart Circuit. www.strettoncircuit.co.uk/ We have negotiated use of adjacent land also.

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
It's on!
September 9th



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-03 01:35 AM by Rhysn.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
Date's on the calendar, all I need to do now is build a kart, and the trailer to move it.

Chris

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 32959 by chrisenamels Date's on the calendar, all I need to do now is build a kart, and the trailer to move it.

Chris

I was tempted to say "no pressure" but yes the pressure is on now Chris. Tim Gunn has replied, Grafton very likely smiling smiley A proper cyclecar built as it would have been in the last set of twenties. I have invited a number of "other than cyclekarts" to;
a) build numbers
b) build interest
c) expose cyclekarts to a wider audience.

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
I've just had an email from one of the UK finished CKers. His is a little different to what most are, but photos are very special. He has been and driven it up the very famous trials hill, "Beggars Roost". He did the restart partway up too. Brilliant work Geoff, photos now required smiling smiley

maybug Avatar
maybug Geoff M
Forest Row, East Sussex, UK   GBR
Well not quite correct, on reflection my email which stated. "The larger sprocket has worked, the restart on "Beggars Roost", no trouble!" was wishful thinking. I have cleaned Beggars Roost many times but in my supercharged Dellow and failed a time or two also!

I fitted a 10 to 55 tooth gearing to my Hornet CK originally but it was over geared I have since fitted a 10 to 66 which is a great improvement and may well get off the restart on Beggars Roost. (more wishful thinking).

As Rhys points out my interpretation of a cyclekart is not the normal, but I have tried to conform to the basic formula ie; 65" wheelbase, 40" tyre width, GX200 engine with Comet type transmission. The wider seating was decided upon to allow room for the "travelling mechanic" or in my case the grandchildren. It has mudguards(fenders) as did many of the period cycle cars, even Bloody Mary sported 1 mudguard. I do hope my version of a pre war Wolseley will be accepted as a true Cyclekart.

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
I still like it and I believe it fits with the ethos of CKs which is developing in the UK.If that means I am mellowing on what makes a CK, it's called pragmatism. I will still carry on with the original Stevenson ideals, but I do want someone to play with!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-04 03:35 PM by Rhysn.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
My view is if it's within the dimensions, power output, and style, then it's a cyclekart. I'm going off piste too, to a degree by using the back end of a 125cc scooter for my Morgan, but it'll fit the basic spec, as in the first sentence. A degree of flexibility will as Rhys says result in "someone to play with".

Chris

TheGIantTribble Avatar
Chelmsford, Essex, UK   GBR
It looks great to me, and very in the spirit of the rules, which I believe most of us are trying. This isn't formula 1 with it's rule book so long that by the time you have finished reading it, they have already altered the first 400 pages!
Bit worried though, everyone else seem to be producing beautiful motors, where as mine is a rather more rough and ready finished...hay ho it looks better the further you stand from it smiling smiley Fun can't be beaten and all that!
Chris did your scooter come with a rev counter, if so do you have a model number? Or is it a twin?...struggling to find one for a single cylinder engine.

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
Well, mine as you may have spotted, is inspired by the GN Kim, which from day one was rough and ready but did the job very well. That is a look I am trying to stay with. The hardest bit at the moment, is trying to make the aluminium look old instead of shiney. I can do rough. What I can't seem to do is a super finish, nor any complex machining. That's part of why I choose the cars I do. I try to maintain the spirit of the inspiration.
In regards the CK "meet the guidelines", I feel that as long as the power/performance is about the same, the dimensions and the wheels are about the same, then it's OK, when there are enough cars then perhaps a division into "real cyclekarts" and "hobby cars" can happen.
I penned these thoughts a few weeks back as a discussion starter for the UK.. Chris, please don't take offence because you are mentioned!

Thoughts for discussion re UK Guidelines/rules for CycleKarts.

Philosophy; to encourage people of all sorts to conceive, construct and make use of in friendly competition a miniaturized small vehicle inspired by the vehicles which have some competition heritage prior to WW2. These to be able to be built by people in their home workshop or garage or school facility or similar with friends, family and not need extensive and expensive machinery. To encourage diversity of construction within the realms of safety.
Should a form of club evolve, the aims of the club should be to assist (not financially) and encourage those aims, and facilitate the knowledge to complete and use the projects.


The vehicle should have a clear line of inspiration from something built prior to 1950. Reason is that was about the time when the wheel sizes were growing in width.
Pre-war is encouraged (strongly).

Width, overall width to the outside of the most extreme point 1020 mm, ie pass between posts at that measurement. Reason, that is an “off the shelf” axle item is available, being pedantic about 1000 mm would mean extra work for some.

Wheelbase, ie length between the axles, suggested by the originators of the hobby was 66” (approx. 1700 mm) in order to ”maintain the cuteness”. Taller people find this restrictive . Also, some cars look better longer, eg Bentley. This is one here I feel a guideline rather than a rule is preferable, max somewhere around 1800 mm?

Wheels and tyres, should look appropriate to the car. Eg the tyres on a Bentley should look different to those on an Austin 7, or GN, neither of which had wide tyres or wheels originally. Tread should look something a “bit vintage”, road racing slicks and such strongly discouraged. Preference would be for rim width to be less than 2” as measured in the industry, and either 14” 17” or 18”. Tyres should be only those with this suggested rim width as a maximum. Where the inspiration car was equipped with wire wheels, so should the cyclekart, discs can be fitted if that was on the inspiration, or “artillery” wheels used if a way can be found to make them. Modern solid wheels, eg space saver or such are not acceptable.
Motive power! To me this is a thorny one. I would like to be inclusive of, for example electric power, but I strongly would discourage true motorcycle engines, in fact I would totally ban them. However, as Chris is doing, the scooter might be an alternate?? Transmission is a builder choice. Suggested as a proven method is the TAV type drive.
The suggested unit would be the industrial unit of nominal 6.5 hp (approx. 200 cc) originally manufactured by Honda and now with a number of “clones”. Modifications should be limited to change of aircleaner, exhaust, removal of the governor system and replacement of flywheels. Any alternate power unit should be in the approximate performance envelope that these can develop.

Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
Rhys' suggestions in the previous post, sounds like there is still a lot of room for one to make their CK unique, cute, functional, safe, and keeping with the theme and spirit originated by the "Stevenson Formula"
Go for it!
Brian

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
Woody, with the proviso ,The vehicle should have a clear line of inspiration from something built prior to 1950. Reason is that was about the time when the wheel sizes were growing in width.
Pre-war is encouraged (strongly).

Unique implies by definition "the only one" which the phrase "clear line of inspiration" seems to mean that making up something doesn't quite fit? (That was the intention anyway, it should be recognisable) The post above #223 was intended as a discussion starter, and has been sent to a few for thoughts.

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