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UK based cycle karts

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Fusion4711 Ron Chandler
Colchester, Essex, UK   GBR
Hey guys, this is not F1. It is a hobby sport. When we start talking about not inviting back because of a 3/4" measurement then we have lost the plot. Keep the net wide and welcome in everyone and just see what turns up.

Still looking for a motor to start my build but looking forward to joining you lot at some point, that is if you,'l let me in.

Happy building
Ron
Colchester

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 33030 by Fusion4711 Hey guys, this is not F1. It is a hobby sport. When we start talking about not inviting back because of a 3/4" measurement then we have lost the plot. Keep the net wide and welcome in everyone and just see what turns up.

Still looking for a motor to start my build but looking forward to joining you lot at some point, that is if you,'l let me in.

Happy building
Ron
Colchester

Agreed Ron when it starts DELIBERATELY to gain an 1 1/2 " are you still happy/ It's the attitude that is being messed with then isn't it? Not the guidelines (I have never said rules) that someone might want to think they can exploit, but haven't they (this mythical person) missed the point entirely?

Ron, engines and TAV are readily available and fair price at Gemini Karts. Tell them we sent you and they are possibly even more friendly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 07:55 AM by Rhysn.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
Rhys,

I think 1/2 - 3/4" can be down to error, once you get to 1" or more it's heading to deliberately trying to gain advantage, having said that I feel there can be some leniency shown to those karts that are already built.

Chris

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Notso-Chinsee Avatar
Notso-Chinsee Gold Member Albert Lies
Spokane Valley, Washington (WA), USA   USA
1927 CycleKart American
1938 CycleKart American "Burd Piston Ring Special"
Moved to: Tire Track Width and Handling
Question in relation to the rear wheel track is a narrow or wider front track a better setup for the Cyclekart purpose?
Al



Al Lies
The "Not-So Chinsee" guy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 10:17 PM by Notso-Chinsee.

PDXBryan Bryan Dickerson
Troutdale, OR, USA   USA
Hi Al,
Is that a rhetorical question? I'd think you'd know the answer better than most!
From my experience, CKs follow the same rules of physics as full sized cars. Lower and wider is more stable. So as wide as possible front and back, right? That's why I chose the '27 Delage as my inspiration. Now we'll see if I can ever get ahead of this farm enough to build it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 11:14 AM by PDXBryan.

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
I agree with you totally Chris. If it's already built, if it's close no issue. Here is a copy and paste from what I actually said,

Track centre of tyre patch to centre of tyre patch at 39", then using the kart spindles, as most do, someone puts spacers inside the hubs and moves it out 3/4" each side. do you then say it can't run?

Isn't that playing a Colin Chapman game? ie read the rules (in our case guidelines) then find the loopholes. At that point I don't personally think I would be being pedantic, I would read that as someone trying to deceive others?

Al, I have no idea what is best, despite having run the narrowest rear end car apart from a 3 wheeler at Tieton. I know the circuit karts vary their width at the back depending on track grip to make them turn in better. My boss moves his enduro kart by up to 6". I'm told it's to make the rear end lift better to allow the inside wheel to break traction. Fixed 2 wheels of course. And of course PDX and Al, are you a bit off topic on the UK based post? smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 12:09 PM by Rhysn.

Notso-Chinsee Avatar
Notso-Chinsee Gold Member Albert Lies
Spokane Valley, Washington (WA), USA   USA
1927 CycleKart American
1938 CycleKart American "Burd Piston Ring Special"
Moved to: "Tire Track Width and Handling"

Bryan & Rhys,
What made me think about the following is if Brian is correct which I think he is on the rear axle/tire track width you buy an off the shelf rear axle with say VKC hubs as in my case the Track Roadster that’s a 35” rear track. Knowing our CK’s are built with a high CG that could range from example 12” off the ground to let’s say 18” or more. What is the best front track width arrangement for improving handling at those limits.
I have my opinion which is not based on testing only observations it’s simply this; with a given front track a narrower rear track is better for going in a straight line. With that one could assume a wider rear track would be better for turning. Both options have limits and exceptions for sure. Again are there configurations that you see as options to minimize the tendency roll.
Al
Should I put this in a different thread?



Al Lies
The "Not-So Chinsee" guy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 10:13 PM by Notso-Chinsee.

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Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
HI Al
I think a new thread is in order for this discussion.
Rhys has made it clear that "this" thread is for Brits only!eye rolling smiley
Which is okay!
But, this discussion on track width, is one I would like to see continued, as I am interested in the views
of other Forum members.
Brian

Notso-Chinsee Avatar
Notso-Chinsee Gold Member Albert Lies
Spokane Valley, Washington (WA), USA   USA
1927 CycleKart American
1938 CycleKart American "Burd Piston Ring Special"
Sorry for stepping in I moved it to a new topic. "Tire Track Width and Handling"
Al



Al Lies
The "Not-So Chinsee" guy

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Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 33034 by chrisenamels Rhys,

I think 1/2 - 3/4" can be down to error, once you get to 1" or more it's heading to deliberately trying to gain advantage, having said that I feel there can be some leniency shown to those karts that are already built.

Chris

If you are building a racing sailing dinghy one design, in many cases the tolerance is +/_ 2 mm on measuring points. If an amateur can build a small boat to those tolerances..... smiling smiley I'm not being serious here about being that picky.

Until the UK scene has begun a few builds it would be fair to say that most people just worked around those approximate figures, and that's just fine. As it is now showing the signs of developing I thought it wise to have some guidelines? Then again, I am aware that I am a bit like the new immigrant, and need to adopt the ways of my new country, not enforce the culture I bring with me, which is why I make suggestions, and that's all they are for discussion.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
Fair point Rhys, I'm being illogical, making sure my build is within the guidelines, while suggesting a degree of leniency for others.

I missed a crucial bit of your sentence, as you obviously realised:

"Track centre of tyre patch to centre of tyre patch at 39", then using the kart spindles, as most do, someone puts spacers inside the hubs and moves it out 3/4" each side. do you then say it can't run?"

I missed "each side" so at 1 1/2" over width no it shouldn't be allowed to run, the 3/4" spacers should be allowed for in the axle construction.

Chris

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
I only used that 3/4" as an example as I know that I could do that with the spindles I have here. Not that I would deliberately as I think it would mess with the geometry and be worse on that basis than the extra width would perhaps enhance.
I would not be one to say that anyone couldn't run if they arrived at an event. I would however hope that they wouldn't come back to another event knowing they could have readily changed something but chose not to. If it would be a major issue to change, I don't know how I would feel. I guess it would come down to attitude?
I know that in a previous motorsport class I had some level of responsibility for we would allow a car to run a little outside the rules (obviously not safety related) and note in their logbook that they were allowed to run at this particular event with the, for example, non allowed tyres, but would have to change for the future. After all, I would want every vehicle running I could gather and give a chance to rectify for the future. If someoone has taken the effort to travel to an event, and paid whatever money is needed to cover the venue costs they should be running.
Hopefully it would never come to driving standards, really don't want to go there!

maybug Avatar
maybug Geoff M
Forest Row, East Sussex, UK   GBR
I certainly stirred the Wolseley Hornets nest when I mentioned width!

Am I missing something here. Keep it simple. Put a nail in a stick another 39" away and guage axle to centre of tyre at ground level. If anyone puts in spacers or moves bearings the wheel moves over and will fail stick test, surely?

Rhysn Rhys Nolan
Tamworth, Staffordshire, UK   GBR
No Geoff you didn't stir a nest, you contributed to a discussion which had people thinking, and that's what it's all about isn't it?!
Some others, if you read all the posts wanted to introduce some tolerance over and above.

chrisenamels Avatar
chrisenamels Silver Member Chris Brown
Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, UK   GBR
Geoff,

Gauging the width is the easy bit, the question is how strict we should be if a kart is over width. I've swung from too lenient to too strict, I think Rhys has hit the right balance in his previous post, allow to run if someone has travelled to an event, but point out the issue needs to be dealt with before the next event.

Chris

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