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question. what it will take to making a cycle kart/velocar/etc 100% road legal

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Speeddemon Avatar
Speeddemon Louis Poleet (Suspended)
Roslindale, MA, USA   USA
1970 CycleKart Custom "Rose"
Hello to all so what will take to make a cycle kart/velocar/homebuilt/homemade car a 100% road legal in your area. Whats the steps required /etc.?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-11 10:05 AM by Speeddemon.

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Woodysrods Silver Member Brian Woods
Westbank B.C., Canada   CAN
More than what is needed on a CycleKart!confused smiley
If you want something street legal wherever you live........build a car!
Some people are starting to forget the simplicity of CycleKarts, and why we were attracted to them in the first place.
They don't need to evolve into anything more than what they are!tongue sticking out smiley
Woody

LowellR Silver Member Lowell Roemke
Tempe, AZ, USA   USA
I'm sure it varies by state. But most likely would need lights, turn and brake signals, horn and need to register as a motorcycle such as they do for ATV Quads.

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Neto Ernest B
Berlin, OH, USA   USA
If you limit the speed to 25 MPH, in many areas it is legal to use on any roadways with a speed limit of 35 MPH or lower, or on the berm alongside any non-limited access highway. In Ohio, there are also requirements for lights, including flashing lights on the rear, and an SMV placard mounted at a certain minimum height, or a flag. (There may be other requirements as well for any given county or township.)

Speeddemon Avatar
Speeddemon Louis Poleet (Suspended)
Roslindale, MA, USA   USA
1970 CycleKart Custom "Rose"
Hello to all and thank you for your replys so how do all the 1947 king midgets owners past and present legally/legit get to reg /drive there metal clad body/wood frame cars/kit/go kart /cycle cars today.? What 1947 laws/state regulations/blue laws still on da books apply to them.? Im sure they didnt go thru a bunch of stuff to be 100 % road dally driven legalized car in witch we should be able to apply to are cycle karts/cars to be on the roads legally and drive them under them same laws/reg/statues. Ive seen pictures of them and they didn't have tail lights /horns or windshield wiper or plate holders. /etc.
Cheers



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-12 12:40 AM by Speeddemon.

Miloschmitty Avatar
Miloschmitty Todd Manoff
Santa Cruz, CA, USA   USA
Hi Louis
Even the king midgets had to meet the regulations of the day. Different states had different requirements. King had head and tail lights.
I agree it would be neat to have your cyclekart registered, but why? There really not practical for today's streets anyway. This coming from someone who drives his on the street to work every so often.
I drive on the side roads, avoid any traffic and pay lots of attention. I own and drive micro and bubble cars so I'm used to driving tiny cars on the street but cyclekarts are just fancy go karts and maybe they should stay that way.
Just my thoughts.
Todd

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, OH, USA   USA
From what I've read on the official Ohio site (where I live now), if it has three wheels it is considered a motorcycle. You do have to get a special driver's license here in Ohio, but the regulations are a lot different than for cars. (So, something like a Morgan three-wheeler?)

Generally, if you were restoring an actual (four wheeled) cycle car from back then, it would not have to meet the regulations for current day cars, only those in effect during that era. The important thing would be to have a title for the original car, or at least a serial number plate, to apply for a title. (But I also don't know if this type of car even had serial numbers, or titles.)

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Bow Avatar
Bow Reverend Bow
Yuma, AZ, USA   USA
1929 Morgan 3 Wheeler "BME RIP Special"
So build it and claim it as a 1920's cyclecar when registered...

I'm pretty sure they didn't have any VIN's back then on vehicles

Headlight, Tail light, maybe a horn (depending on the rules for registering a VINTAGE vehicle)

That question is: how you going to insure it?



Bow

Cut it with and Axe, Beat it to Fit, Paint it to Match

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
No doubt the King Midget falls under the Grandfather laws. If it was street legal in 1947
when it was first built, then if it's not modified it can still be registered to day.
I've driven my totally stock 1950 Chevy truck for the past decade on the busy
streets of the Chicago suburbs with out turn signals, seat belts, with one very dim
brake light and it is still street legal.
Even this truck, which has been totally rebuilt to factory new specs, with it's rebuilt
stock 6 cylinder engine is border line when it comes to keeping up with traffic.
Although I have it geared to run comfortably at 55mph and am able to push it
to 65 if need be for short stretches, it still struggles in rush hour traffic. I wouldn't
feel comfortable driving anything with less performance in today's traffic.and
something with 6 to 10 horse power would be nothing short of terrifying. The
tiny four bangers in the hew cars can run rings around it.
DG

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Miloschmitty Avatar
Miloschmitty Todd Manoff
Santa Cruz, CA, USA   USA
I'm in the process of restoring a original cyclecar from 1913. It has a title, body number stamped on a brass manufacture plate, engine number stamped in the crankcase. I don't have it currently registered, but here in Calif. I will get Horseless Carriage license plates when that time comes. Insurance is required here to register your car. This one is already on my antique auto insurance policy so there's no problem there. So even if I found a loop hole to get the cyclekart registered,
I would then need insurance that would be willing to cover.
I don't know about other states but in Calif. that's another $92 bucks a year just for license registration. More than what insurance would cost for a year. Probably not a big deal if it's your only car, but with my garage full it smarts in the pocket book.
Regards
Todd

Speeddemon Avatar
Speeddemon Louis Poleet (Suspended)
Roslindale, MA, USA   USA
1970 CycleKart Custom "Rose"
Hi todd thank you for your reply. Well up here in taxachushzts every thing with wheels besides a bicycle has to be reg /ins/plates/taxed to the moon to be legally on the road and falls each ther own category. kit car /homebuilt /reconstructed/antique/cars/etc falls under different class vehicles categories that be registered if you have a title for it. That 1947 king midget /go kart/car kit .100% would end up never to be registered up here rmv/pd would class it as a go kart/off road use only kiddie car . it would be a total pain in rear legal expense nightmare to get registration/ins/title for it. If at all possible. From what i see info on it on the old interwebbz it didnt hav a vin plate /vin number as far as I know . only the model 2/3 king midgets had a serial number stamped on the frame and came with a king midget microcar manufacturers title for them models..cheers



Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-12 12:21 PM by Speeddemon.

CmdBentaxle Avatar
CmdBentaxle Dave D
Federal Way, WA, USA   USA
1950 CycleKart Italian "1950 Ferrari 166 F2"
I have to agree with Todd and Brian on this Louis.
The steps required for legal road operation vary greatly depending on State and local laws, but almost always would result in something different from a cyclekart. The truth is, as much fun as they are on the right surface as a sportster, they make pretty miserable transportation on public roads. In any sort of automobile traffic, they
are seriously dangerous. They are at their best when kept as light and simple as possible.

Denny Graham Silver Member Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL, USA   USA
1950 Chevrolet 3600 "Old Blue"
1954 Chevrolet 3600
I don’t mean to sound like a smart ars or a daddy Warbucks type Todd…..but…..
If ninety two bucks a year is too much to spend on your vehicle, which only
amounts to 25 cents a day, then, maybe you should take up a new hobby,
like watching television or working puzzles.
That’s really nothing by today's standards. Here in Illinois vehicle registration is
over $100 and the liability insurance alone for my 50’s trucks (2) runs $200....a year.
Then tack on the two motocycles, my 2014 Silverado, mother’s car plus the
’97 work truck and you’re talking about a nice chunk of change for the
DMV and Insurance agent.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Neto Ernest B
Berlin, OH, USA   USA
I think that if you are thinking of city traffic, then I'm with these other nay-sayers. But if you are in a rural area, or if you are talking about neighborhood residential streets, then I think it is workable, provided that it cannot go over 25 MPH. I live in the middle of the largest Amish community in the States, and you all would be amused to see some of the powered contraptions they run on the roads. People who are not familiar with this area probably think they strictly don't run anything but horse drawn vehicles on the roadways, but while there are some factions of the Amish that do have strict rules like that - some do not even use bicycles - most are a little more lax about it. All kinds of tractors, including old Johnny Poppers, electric bicycles, garden tractors, etc. There are a couple of elderly brothers that live about 6 miles from this small town we live in, and they go back and forth with a tiller connected to a small trailer. (They sit in the trailer, which has a seat right at the front, like a spring wagon.) Golf cars, ATVs, etc. All are operated on the road ways here. But there are differences about this area that makes it more viable - people expect (or should) that there might easily be a buggy or bike just over the next hill, in all kinds of weather, night, and in the dead of winter. Many of the back roads here are so winding and hilly that even in a car you cannot safely travel over 35 - 40 MPH. Most of the main roads have paved berms wide enough for a buggy. (The Amish voluntarily pay in hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to maintain these areas.)

moto-klasika Avatar
moto-klasika Zoran R. Pualic
Bern, Bern, Switzerland   CHE
In reply to # 28551 by Woodysrods More than what is needed on a CycleKart!confused smiley
If you want something street legal wherever you live........build a car!
Some people are starting to forget the simplicity of CycleKarts, and why we were attracted to them in the first place.
They don't need to evolve into anything more than what they are!tongue sticking out smiley
Woody
================================================================
Hello there!
If the right question is "Could be CycleKart modified to be street/road legal?" - then, Brian the Woddy gave the right and simple answer - NO!

Similar opinions have the most of members active here, and all of them have enough of knowledge, experience and common sense - not only about CycleKarts but DIY cars in general!
(much more than I have, but I studied a lot such DIY road-legal vehicles for use in Europe and with American friends too for use in the USA)

For me, any complete, serious and practical solution needs proper question, with an explanation at least in 10 sentences!
For example: what kind and class of car want and could build interested person, what materials should use for chassis and body, what motor/engine( gasoline, diesel, electric, hybrid), what maximum power, what maximum speed, how and where is planned to use and so on...
--- ---
In Europe, a situation is more clear - there are European Union Directives with regulations and standards for light motorised vehicles, with three or four wheels and they are put into a few classes and more sub-classes!
Of course: all-wheel brakes, emergency/reverse brake, lights, signals and so on... The first thing is to attest it, then technical test, then insurance and finally registration!
--- ---
Americans should know that better for the USA, but every state has own regulations? So, check them first!
Some light four-wheel motorised vehicle could be built and probably legally used at road if it is built according to law and standards. The best, if it is a modification of already registered vehicle with all of the "papers". Check with all kind of American beloved DIY cars, from light "neighbourhood" vehicles to hot-rods, street-rods, Lotus-7 clones and all kinds of replicas and kit-cars. Pretending that it is a historical vehicle and ask for such legalisation - should be quite difficult, but even more dangerous (legal responsibilities and consequences in a case of an accident).

As I know, King-Midget Model-I (single-seater, similar in a shape, size and performances to our Cyclekarts) didn't need registration and no one had, but they were used on roads and streets - fully legally or just tolerating. A pair of guys travelled in one across America, during the fifties! Our seniors from the USA should know that better, but I think that both Model-II and Model-III (two-seaters) were registered in their period and some of them today. Of course, all lights and signals must be added to modern standards, at least for safety! My American friend had a few of both models and use old registration as I remember well, but could get new for historic vehicles - he lives in a country, not very much populated, with a lot of local roads, across fields and woods... Now, a few guys developed the prototype for KM Model-II and sell good plans for it, supposing that it could be registered.
--- ---
In this case, maybe the simplest solution is to find registered and insured quad and modified it into what is wanted! That was done by one of the French guys, a member of our CK-Club. He simply cut and lengthened chassis and made the body as he wished, with different wheels than original. He used it only for CycleKart meetings. The first quads, some 20-30 years ago, looks a lot like four-wheel motorcycles, with a similar frame, engine and transmission, wire-spoked motorcycle-type wheels...
--- ---
If it would be a slow and low-powered vehicle, better not to be used on any road where automobiles, SUVs and lorries have speed up to and over 100 km/hour ~ 60 miles!
You would annoy them, make problems in traffic and maybe be killed!

Louis, enjoy in searching, studying, planning ( a lot, again and again) and eventually building your dream-machine!
My very old dream is similar to your, but...

Ciao,
Zoran



Zoran R. Pualić
(mostly living in Bern, Swiss & happy in my Belgrade, Serbia)


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