Registry: 1950 CycleKart Italian

Dave D's 1950 CycleKart Italian – “1950 Ferrari 166 F2”
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“1950 Ferrari 166 F2”
1949 -51 Ferrari 166 F2

Vehicle Information

Owner: Dave D   [CmdBentaxle]
Location: Federal Way, WA, USA USA
Status: Racer, Running

Model Year:1950
Build Date:2016-02-21
Original Colour:Red
Current Colour:Red
Odometer:60 miles
Engine Type:Predator 212
Transmission:Tav 30
Last Updated:2017-05-02 19:20:26


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Member Comments on Registry: 1950 CycleKart Italian   ↵
Rated 9.2 out of 10 based on 10 ratings
2016-05-05 09:48:01 # 34267
Comment by Dennis Thomas
Good looking Kart Dave!
2016-05-05 13:40:17 # 34274
Comment by Dave D
Thank's Dennis. Can't wait to get the skin on, but having to relocate in the process.
2016-05-12 03:51:30 # 34389
Comment by Brian S
Great choice of kart Dave,,looks good so far,,can't wait to see more..Good luck with the build..Brian S.
2016-05-14 15:50:45 # 34420
Comment by Dave D
Thank's Brian. Once moved I'll have 1 month before Tieton to do all the bodywork. Gonna be close!
2016-06-09 18:47:04 # 35022
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Hello Dave, excellent build, both concept and details! Did you make aluminum chassis, bolted? Good luck for Tieton, even be classified as "formula libre" and started from back row... Zoran
2016-06-10 01:58:00 # 35032
Comment by Dave D
Thank you Zoran,Yes, the chassis is aluminum. 1x3 inch .1250 wall rectangle, with oak inserts at the stress points, gusseted and through bolted. Even with all the hardware, I'm pretty happy with the weight.Other than the postwar vintage, it will all be GGP formula.So, maybe Libra, yes.Having recently relocated in the midst of the project, it looks likeI won't finish in time. I'll still be there at Saturday however.Good to here from you...Dave
2016-07-15 01:03:59 # 35782
Comment by Dave D
It drives. Actually the 1st one I've driven. Fun. A little squirrely on sudden deceleration. I'll sort it out.
2016-07-17 14:36:07 # 35820
Comment by Dave D
Finally, the bodywork can begin.
2016-09-19 18:11:05 # 37342
Comment by Dave D
At last beginning to look the part.Now for the nose!
2016-09-25 15:54:44 # 37463
Comment by Dennis Thomas
That car really looks sweet, nice and low and beautiful lines.
2016-09-25 22:38:38 # 37469
Comment by Dave D
Thank you again Dennis. That Monocar of yours inspired me to keep it low & stable.
2016-12-08 02:03:03 # 38908
Comment by Johnny R
Why such a small under powered engine? With driver (you) what is the total weight? how many speed transmission? What is the final drive ratio? Top speed?
2016-12-09 11:41:20 # 38939
Comment by Dave D
JohnnyThe engine size, while small, is the max allowed under the guidelines for participation in cyclekart events. The transmissionis variable ratio torque converter. Wt. with me is 445lbs. Lesswih someone else. Top speed, with enough road is about 45 mph.
2016-12-09 13:59:09 # 38943
Comment by Johnny R
Dave, I like your machine's look! Seeing it takes more time and enough road to gain speed, seems to me to defy the purpose of being a racer or being safe in traffic. I chose to build this vehicle with a 420cc Predator motor to overcome these issues that others who want a more practical vehicle now can build. It appears the automotive industry has been taken over by the government regulations, whicj is an unstated guideline other clubs and associations incorporate to encompass all vehicle classifications, who create restrictions to turn people away from what the people really want. The politics of dancing.
2016-12-09 18:48:37 # 38944
Comment by Dennis Graham
I believe you are missing the point Johnny R. I'd say you need to dosome reading about what the Cyclekart movement is all about. We're not building dragsters, formula Juniors or Mini Sprints. And the choice to limit the W/B, tread, tire size, weight and displacement is meant to keep the cost down so one doesn't have to get into the many thousands of dollars to have a weekend of fun.There are plenty of guys that are building shifter go karts with multi cylinder big displacement engines. That's not what Cyclekarting is about and it wouldn't be much fun having one of those in a group of toned down Cyclecars. dg
2016-12-09 19:09:01 # 38945
Comment by Dave D
That covers it nicely, Denny.Johnny, have a look at some of the video from cyclekart gatherings on this site and maybe it'll make more sense to you. Or, maybe not. They aren't everyone's cup of tea.
2016-12-10 10:54:51 # 38954
Comment by Johnny R
By variable ratio you mean a CVC belt trans? This is not the most fuel efficient and wear out quickly. Gearing is one of the most important ingredient for fuel economy, besides power to weight ratio. 1 horse power can pull 33,000 pounds, but that's not at an optimal economic ratio. I'm not sure what you mean about the gathering, except keeping it fair in a race competition. OR maybe showing off a different limited design and engineering concepts. Maybe I'm weird but my competition is myself and I'm not interested in the social aspect of showing off. Many ask me why I don't take my '67 Cougar to car shows, I say, "I build it cause I like it. What other think doesn't really matter." Yet with building this cyclecar, the same reasons you listed were considered in building this vehicle, (except for using a motor that can get out of it's own way & independent suspension) but known engineering that make the vehicle more performance oriented for handling and economical, besides user friendly qualities of anyone who
2016-12-10 17:20:25 # 38958
Comment by Dave D
Yep. That's the trans type I mean, and yes, there are more efficient means of transfering power. But in an effort to keep the cars within a similar performance envelope, it's part of a formula we have agreed on over the course of time. Sure, you will find variations , but with the goal being more exhibition racing thanall out competition, we want them to run close, and at fairly low speeds. I'll note also that many, if not most of us have considerable experience with much higher performance vehicles ranging fromracing cars and motorcycles to aviation projects of considerable complexity. Be assured Johnny, these cars are not simple and slow do to lack of imagination or knowledge. Their builders actually like them this way. I'll take wheel to wheel at 25mphover150mph by myself any day. Been there... If you're looking for fun, you're In the right place. Top efficiency research? Not so much.You aren't wierd. You just have different priorities.Just please, be careful how fast you push those bicycle parts!Good
2016-12-10 17:21:54 # 38959
Comment by Dave D
2016-12-10 18:11:37 # 38962
Comment by Dennis Graham
Well said Dave. In my time I've driven full midgets, Sprinters, and later built and flew a Pitts S1 in national competition. At my age, ie, 74, I'm ready to just have some fun while burning off the urge to go fast. How ever, I do want for a little better performance than the John Deere lawn tractor.So a 10hp Cyclekart at 50 on a tight climbing and twisting off road course probably will give me more than my share of would be fun to chase another kart minded buddy around knowing he's not out to run circles around me, where only your skilland feel for the machine gives one the advantage over the other. Denny GrahamSandwich, IL
2016-12-10 22:37:08 # 38969
Comment by Johnny R
I can appreciate your design that matches your purpose. So the good handling comes from having a hard frame with no suspension? Driving on smooth road surfaces is a must? Where I live there are a lot of dirt rutted roads that even with a long traveling suspension, it's a rough ride. After seeing the late 19 century original cyclecars were built more or less like your model, I wanted a modern version build that would have been designed if the parts were available then, as they are now. I also think it's fun driving on tight twisting roads with confidence in my machine's feedback, even at high speeds. I must admit, I've got a heavy foot, even though I've lightened up some with age, the thrill isn't necessarily the objective as is achieving the performance expected. As for thrills, I'll never forget riding in my father's '57 T bird going over the Rock Island RR tracks at 140 mph while I was standing on the seat holding on the windshield with my face in the wind. My legs doubled upon landing back on the pavement
2016-12-10 22:41:44 # 38970
Comment by Johnny R
I just finish installing a front spoiler and have some wiring to finish before paint. Since I live out in the desert with wide open highways, I plan on finding out what top end is. I'll post the results here. Thanks for your concern.
2016-12-10 22:44:06 # 38971
Comment by Dave D
Denny I'm telling you. The first time you throw that thing sideways and drift through a corner on those skinny tires at the heady velocity of 20mph, you are in for a real treat! Like putting an S-1 down on a skinny runway in a crosswind?Not hardly. But lots of silly amusement.
2016-12-10 22:59:01 # 38972
Comment by Dave D
Johnny I'll look forward to seeing your progress. Thank you forthe kind remarks on my Kart. Soon I'll be posting the finished product.
2016-12-11 02:14:01 # 38975
Comment by Dennis Graham
Dave, did you post any details of the build in the Tech forum or somewhere else??? I'm just full of questions, such as, can you elaborate on the front rims/hubs? Did you sort out the "deceleration" handling problemthat you had mentioned? Like to hear more about your instruments.How did you make out on the weight after the body was finished?I assume the tail and nose are glass??? Like to see the frame before it got dressed.DG
2016-12-11 02:35:08 # 38976
Comment by Dennis Graham
PS: and yes, I did chalk up a couple of runway lights before I got the landings figured out.Fortunately the runway was in my back yard so I could sneak out and stand them back up after dark before the neighbors noticed. dg
2016-12-11 05:03:08 # 38977
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Denny, but it would be nice to see such lights from a few miles around? Especially for Christmass period! Ciao, Zoran
2016-12-11 11:36:37 # 38985
Comment by Dave D
Denny. Didn't do a journal. Got too far along before I thought I wanted to and I'm kind of reclusive once I get into my laboratory. Those front wheels are kawasaki kx 80. The hubs just lookmore like the Borrani wires on the old Ferrarri but the bearings are kind of small and there's not much meat to bore out for larger. I'll see how they last. I'm embarrassed to say that most of the decel instability was just front end slop. On acceleration, with all the old timey camber it just sort of runs fairly true on it's own. But when the weight transfers forward, look out! My front susp is independent, and set up to squat a little turning in, (I despise understeer) which doesn't help. If you use Azusa spindles, be prepared to re-bush them with somthing better than those plastic inserts. Constantly loosening. The insturments I just lifted from Ebay ads, blew them up to scale on an office printer, cut them out and set them in the bezels, which are 1/4" slices of aluminum pipe. then I poured in clear casting resin to
2016-12-11 11:46:49 # 38986
Comment by Dave D
form a lens. The weight is just an estimate. But pretty close as I have been able to weigh all the big chunks separately. The bodywork is .040 wrisco rivited to the aluminum chassis, but the compound curves are built up wood and foam over formers, glassed over with 4oz cloth. Getting close to finishing so album to come.Dave
2016-12-11 13:13:39 # 38988
Comment by Dennis Graham
Aha, foe instruments, They looked so real I thought you had found asource for cyclekart appropriate gauges.Won't do it on the first kart, but would like some day to make some custom hubs laced up with the Honda rims on them. With them we could spread the load out a little more and use a good sized bearing, maybe even adjustable Timkins.dg
2016-12-11 14:07:56 # 38989
Comment by Dave D
I looked around for a 1950s era Jeager 8000 rpm tach scaled down to 3.5 " diameter for cyclekarts. Somehow nobody had one. Go figure. Yeah, these ballraces should be on borrowed time with the side loads we put on them. Yet, they seem to defy conventional wisdom, lasting fairly well.
2016-12-11 17:19:50 # 38993
Comment by Dennis Graham
The ball bearings that are used in motorcycle wheels are designed for Radial loadsWhen used on a four wheel vehicle they need to be designed for an angular load.That can be a angular contact ball bearing or the more common angular contact roller bearing.The front outer wheel bearing on many of the older rear wheel drive vehicles are really quite small. It wouldnt be a stretch to design a hub that used a common bearingsuch as that used on an older Chevy, Ford or Mopar front wheel. They would be inexpensive and readily available anywhere there is an auto parts store or bearing supplier.Problem isgetting someone to tool up and manufacture inexpensive hubs for our you posted.this so far doesnt seem to be a major weakness in theCyclekart as they are being built today.dg
2016-12-11 19:42:37 # 38994
Hi, I wonder how I can get the project? For me to do here in Brazil. Congratulations on the very beautiful CycleKart my e-mail and
2016-12-12 00:31:06 # 38998
Comment by Dave D
Thank you, AtilioMost of the mechanical parts used in these cars are gokart works with an agent in Brazil and has most of what you need. The wheels come from the Honda Ct 90 trail bike.Most of it you design the way you like. There are no plans, but I recommend taking ideas from the builders you see on this site.
2016-12-12 00:34:49 # 38999
Comment by Dave D
Thank you, AtilioMost of the mechanical parts used in these cars are gokart works with an agent in Brazil and has most of what you need. The wheels come from the Honda Ct 90 trail bike.Most of it you design the way you like. There are no plans, but I recommend taking ideas from the builders you see on this site.Read and study as much as you can before you begin and don't hesitate to ask questions. Have funDave
2016-12-12 12:41:19 # 39006
I would like to know how I can get the Cyclekart chassis
2016-12-12 13:56:37 # 39007
Comment by Dave D
Other than, there are none for sale.Almost all have been designed and built by their owner.
2016-12-12 14:15:56 # 39008
Comment by Dave D
Atilio, Jayme Barbarisi, a member here, lives near you and is working on a cyclekart.
2016-12-12 18:03:45 # 39012
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Rating: 10/10
Hello Dave, this jurnal became one with longest list of comments! Great! Zoran
2016-12-12 18:38:29 # 39013
Comment by Dennis Graham
A real gray line between a "Registry" or Build thread Zoran. When there is no thread in a build forum then this seems to be the onlyway to get at the details.dg
2016-12-12 18:47:01 # 39014
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Denny ... my correction: that is REGISTER not JURNAL as I wrote! Sometime both jurnals and registers are better than thread/topic? Zoran
2016-12-12 18:48:28 # 39015
Comment by Johnny R
Where can I find the place to add new photos of the body work?
2016-12-12 21:34:49 # 39020
Comment by Dave D
Ok Denny, that does it!I wasn't going to do a journal, but at the risk of subjecting myself to the full brunt of the peanut gallery, you have convinced me it's the appropriate format going forward. Naturally, I'll still keep an eye out here. Look for me in the funny papers, boys.
2016-12-12 23:06:25 # 39021
Comment by Dave D
Start up a journal Johnny, like I finally did.
2016-12-13 01:55:05 # 39022
Comment by Dennis Graham
I knew we'd shame you into spilling the beans on your build Dave.But seriously, I'm sure the other guys would like to see more detailson how you went about the fabrication of your kart. You've used alot of different ideas from the standard build in your CK.ThanksDenny GrahamSandwich, IL
2016-12-13 09:22:48 # 39027
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Comment by Johnny R: Where can I find the place to add new photos of the body work? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johny, you could simply add new photos in your own thread/topic named "Hand built economy cycle car", in "Custom Karts Forum". Just as old photos, you could add new photos with text as you want. No limited space there. Ciao, Zoran
2016-12-13 09:23:33 # 39028
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Dave, sorry to abused your space! Zoran
2016-12-13 10:23:20 # 39029
Comment by Johnny R
New photos uploaded replacing other, no change
2016-12-13 11:20:04 # 39031
Comment by Johnny R
the old deleted replaced with new will not delete. Should I create a whole new post?
2016-12-13 11:27:01 # 39032
Comment by Johnny R
Dave D. I created a journal, but am not familiar with how to manage it. I posted it on yahoo, but what's RSS feed? I can't even post my new photos on this sight after 10 tries of deleting the old and posting the new, nothing changes.
2016-12-13 12:20:45 # 39034
Comment by Dave D
No problem Zoran.I guess Sky will shut us down if we get too wordy here.Good answer to johnny by the way.
2016-12-13 12:26:46 # 39035
Comment by Dave D
Johnny.I had a hard time with my photos as well.Needed a better connection to my WiFi.Got closer. Worked.
2016-12-13 13:13:19 # 39036
Comment by Johnny R
My computer is hard wired to the Internet.
2016-12-13 14:44:12 # 39040
Comment by Zoran R. P.
Comment by Dave D: No problem Zoran.I guess Sky will shut us down if we get too wordy here.Good answer to johnny by the way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTHING NEW, I WAS BANNED A FEW TIMES FOR A FEW DAYS BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH POSTING IN "PUB"! THAT IS MACHINE, I SUPPOSE? ZORAN
2016-12-13 15:25:26 # 39042
Comment by Dave D
Oh! I guess we'd better watch out then.
2016-12-13 17:31:52 # 39043
Comment by Dennis Graham
Same here Zoran, thought the idea was to have open discussions, don't understand there being a limit on how much you can discuss.dg
2016-12-14 19:35:36 # 39063
Comment by Johnny R
Finally got new photo of the finish front end. take a look here by scrolling down to the last photo:,20282
2017-03-08 22:21:21 # 40864
Comment by Dave D
Wow, did this comment section go sideways or what?
2017-03-09 00:04:05 # 40865
Comment by Bryan Dickerson
Don't mean to be "off topic" but I just have to say........ Awesome CycleKart Dave! You nailed it.
2017-03-09 15:21:31 # 40875
Comment by Dave D
The most "on topic" comment this section has seen a while!Thank's Bryan.
2017-07-07 08:08:19 # 43376
Comment by Justin Tremain
Beautifully crafted, detailed representation Daves muse! Craftsmanship is second to none!

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Vehicle History

This vehicle's information was last updated on 2017-05-02 19:20:26

Changes from 2017-05-02 19:20:26 to previous 2017-01-27 01:13:20
Mileage 20 → 60
Changes from 2017-01-27 01:13:20 to previous 2016-07-22 18:30:13
Mileage 5 → 20
Colour Bare metal → Red
Changes from 2016-07-22 18:30:13 to previous 2016-07-15 00:57:53
Nickname added   1950 Ferrari 166 F2
Changes from 2016-07-15 00:57:53 to previous 2016-06-09 12:27:41
Mileage added   5
Status Restoration in progress → Running
Changes from 2016-06-09 12:27:41 to previous 2016-04-13 02:10:38
Vin 0112 → 1605

Ownership History

Date Owner ID Notes
Mar 14, 2016 Dave D  USA Added to Registry (ID 33414)

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